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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    I'm just now realizing that their idea of how to target a specific item probably means personal loot chance from a rare spawn (think: the blues that drop from Tanaan rares)
    These are going to be a mess no matter what they do. Unless they implement scaling tech somehow, where the ilvl of the items is not insanely higher or lower than everything else, no matter when you get it.

    But ... and I do think your idea here is a good prediction of how they do it ... they're going to have to be rare enough that even with being targeted they're still rare. Which means there will be people who get super lucky and get all their legendary pieces, and there will be people who never get any. It's not going to be a "everyone hunting for them from day 1 will get them".

    This is gonna cause so much QQ.
    I am the one who knocks ... because I need your permission to enter.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    I'm just now realizing that their idea of how to target a specific item probably means personal loot chance from a rare spawn (think: the blues that drop from Tanaan rares)
    Absolutely not. Warlords was all about moving away from rare spawns that people camp for and fight over. They're not going to reverse course and do them with items of significant power. Also it goes against all the "world drop" mentions they've made, where the legendary items are supposed to encourage you to be out in the world doing stuff and killing mobs instead of idling in a city while waiting for a queue.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    legendaries are Rare world drops, but not fully random. There will be ways to target specific items.
    Powerful throughout the expansion. When you get one, you will want to keep it for the entire expansion.
    Role, class, and spec based effects on the items.
    Thats my point. If I get it on an alt thats GG to my main for raiding. And if I dont get it at all on anything... I could be benched for someone who has it. Making them "rare" but meh... If it was diablo system would be better.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Yorindesarin View Post
    Thats my point. If I get it on an alt thats GG to my main for raiding. And if I dont get it at all on anything... I could be benched for someone who has it. Making them "rare" but meh... If it was diablo system would be better.
    That is a player-made problem then, not one blizzard made and if it weren't the legendary items being used as an artificial benchmark then it would be something else.
    Achievements, item level, artifact progression, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    That is a player-made problem then, not one blizzard made and if it weren't the legendary items being used as an artificial benchmark then it would be something else.
    Achievements, item level, artifact progression, etc.
    Achievements, item level, and artifact progression are all within the players control and are determined almost entirely on effort. RNG rare drops aren't.

    And player made problems are blizzards problems. They create the systems knowing player behavior.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  6. #186
    I got my first epic world drop yesterday since i started playing in tbc (scabbard while doing apexis stuff for the weekly event), Im looking forward to this legendary hunting...

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    That is a player-made problem then, not one blizzard made and if it weren't the legendary items being used as an artificial benchmark then it would be something else.
    Achievements, item level, artifact progression, etc.
    As Bacon said.... When you think about it having items THIS strong be random world drops/whatever else. Literally some of them completely change how a spec works (the instant demon summons for demo for instance) that completely clears up the wasted time casting for the demons in the rotation... Are you telling me I should spend 10000 hours (random big number) to farm a legendary I may never possibly get due to RNG and have some guy who doesnt raid/has no interest in it get it on his first world mob kill.. and is instantly more raid viable than me? Taking into account I'dve bought BoEs/spent hundreds of hours on dungeons in the first weeks etc as well as spending time farming for this legendary.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Yorindesarin View Post
    have some guy who doesn't raid/has no interest in it get it on his first world mob kill.. and is instantly more raid viable than me?
    Think this takes away from the conversation personally.

    I really don't care about the guy who has no interest in raiding getting a nice thing, more power to him. What I care about is the people who are planning on raiding and whether or not they can get completely fucked on this stuff even if they put in the time and effort.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Think this takes away from the conversation personally.

    I really don't care about the guy who has no interest in raiding getting a nice thing, more power to him. What I care about is the people who are planning on raiding and whether or not they can get completely fucked on this stuff even if they put in the time and effort.
    True it does take away a bit... Maybe I should have used a better example. Though to be fair good on anyone that gets them... But since blizzards ethos of late has been "everyone can get it!" throwing an RNG based legendary system into the mix seems to go against that.. Maybe it'll be done based on spec you're playing. But then I guess Demo also has DoTs so the neck could still viably drop for Demo... And the helm may drop for affi... It'll be interesting to see how they sort through this. I'm quite looking forward to throwing agony on anything thatll take a tick from it for souls (if that makes it through beta) be nice instead of this nightfall RNG stuff...

  10. #190
    I'm afraid they'll tie the drops to spec. That seems fairly likely since it would be shit to be a.. healer and get a dps legendberry or a tank one.

    Hopefully for us they just lump them all together since we *could* feasibly use any for any spec besides the drain life bracers.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I'm afraid they'll tie the drops to spec. That seems fairly likely since it would be shit to be a.. healer and get a dps legendberry or a tank one.

    Hopefully for us they just lump them all together since we *could* feasibly use any for any spec besides the drain life bracers.
    Yeah thats what I was thinking/afraid of. The end result possibly being that I want to play demo in raids but end up being more affi due to a neck drop etc. :/ Would have been nice if they had made it a currency exchange instead or some small quest line relevant to where the item comes from. Would have been cool. Say an item that offers several quests you can pick from and after you pick it perishes. So I want the affi neck? Great go explore what the guy in the flavour text did to get it. Bit more interesting than "WOOO I GOT THIS THING I DONT REALLY WANT!"

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorindesarin View Post
    Yeah thats what I was thinking/afraid of. The end result possibly being that I want to play demo in raids but end up being more affi due to a neck drop etc. :/ Would have been nice if they had made it a currency exchange instead or some small quest line relevant to where the item comes from. Would have been cool. Say an item that offers several quests you can pick from and after you pick it perishes. So I want the affi neck? Great go explore what the guy in the flavour text did to get it. Bit more interesting than "WOOO I GOT THIS THING I DONT REALLY WANT!"
    its easily solved tho, just add an exchange, you get the crappy legendary that you cant use, then just exchange it to the useful 1, but i dont think it is going to be an issue when you consider that you can target the legendary item you want.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    its easily solved tho, just add an exchange, you get the crappy legendary that you cant use, then just exchange it to the useful 1, but i dont think it is going to be an issue when you consider that you can target the legendary item you want.
    You can target it how? Also... don't you think a quest line would be a bit nicer? A bit more... "This item is special" type gig that they want to show? Its something I feel artefact weapons should be. We should make the weapons legends. Hence why I'm against doom hammer and ashbringer... Nerzhuls staff is a bit of a grey area... They should really be new things like a lot of the classes are getting.. and we should be creating their lore with our deeds. So why shouldn't the legendary world drops give us an insight into what makes them special?

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Yorindesarin View Post
    Yeah thats what I was thinking/afraid of. The end result possibly being that I want to play demo in raids but end up being more affi due to a neck drop etc. :/ Would have been nice if they had made it a currency exchange instead or some small quest line relevant to where the item comes from. Would have been cool. Say an item that offers several quests you can pick from and after you pick it perishes. So I want the affi neck? Great go explore what the guy in the flavour text did to get it. Bit more interesting than "WOOO I GOT THIS THING I DONT REALLY WANT!"
    Did I miss a post somewhere detailing information about the Legendaries and how we are getting them?

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulzar View Post
    Did I miss a post somewhere detailing information about the Legendaries and how we are getting them?
    Idk did I? xD Sometimes I miss really important stuff.. But as far as I know... world drops are going to be one way? correct me if I'm wrong. lol

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Achievements, item level, and artifact progression are all within the players control and are determined almost entirely on effort. RNG rare drops aren't.

    And player made problems are blizzards problems. They create the systems knowing player behavior.
    No, because by that argument of it being "blizzard's" problem there would be no gear drops, no achievements, no item level and purely random matchmaking with no idea of who you are even playing with.
    That is how you fix those issues if you want to blame blizzard for player behavior.

    If doesn't matter if those items give a 50% increase throughput or its 1%.
    Players have dictated that there is a requirement based on some tiny theoretical percentage, and will continue to do so.
    Short of complete removal of all differences, all classes and specs and turning us into exact clones then players will dictate artificial requirements.
    Blizzard are NOT to blame for that, and nor can they in any way prevent it.

    LFR for a damn good reason removes that sort of leadership, and still players try to enforce it.

    The issue is absolutely player-driven.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2015-11-26 at 09:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulzar View Post
    Did I miss a post somewhere detailing information about the Legendaries and how we are getting them?
    front page of mmo champion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    No, because by that argument of it being "blizzard's" problem there would be no gear drops, no achievements, no item level and purely random matchmaking with no idea of who you are even playing with.
    That is how you fix those issues if you want to blame blizzard for player behavior.

    If doesn't matter if those items give a 50% increase throughput or its 1%.
    Players have dictated that there is a requirement based on some tiny theoretical percentage, and will continue to do so.
    Short of complete removal of all differences, all classes and specs and turning us into exact clones then players will dictate artificial requirements.
    Blizzard are NOT to blame for that, and nor can they in any way prevent it.

    LFR for a damn good reason removes that sort of leadership, and still players try to enforce it.

    The issue is absolutely player-driven.
    hmm, you're stating that it is a player problem and then proceed to state how blizz can remove said problem, which sorta proves that it is a blizz problem. any problems related to the game is a blizz problem coz the players are forced to play the game within blizz' constraints, if it was the other way around, then you would be correct.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    front page of mmo champion.

    - - - Updated - - -



    hmm, you're stating that it is a player problem and then proceed to state how blizz can remove said problem, which sorta proves that it is a blizz problem. any problems related to the game is a blizz problem coz the players are forced to play the game within blizz' constraints, if it was the other way around, then you would be correct.
    Blizzard can only "fix" the problem by removing any player control. Do you really want that ?
    You just want to blame blizzard for the sake of blaming blizzard, when the reality it is players forcing blizzard to make changes most of the time.
    It is a player problem.

    ANY game has constraints set.
    Look at how in Pong you are not meant to move the bat left or right.
    The problem is when players intentionally hurt the experience with the freedom they are given.
    More rules only punish the honest players, but have become an increasingly necessary measure.
    Blizzard's measures are the lesser of two evils, compared to what the community would do without that intervention.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2015-11-26 at 11:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Blizzard can only "fix" the problem by removing any player control. Do you really want that ?
    They can fix the problem by creating systems that promote different player behavior, it's not at all a new or revolutionary concept.

    When league of legends had one of thee most toxic communities to exist in the gaming world to the point where it actually coined the word "toxic" to describe it... they didn't just blame the players. They set out to figure out ways to combat that toxicity.

    There are systems that promote good player behavior, for instance in ff14 the match made dungeons will announce if its someones first time in the dungeon as soon as you load in which changes expectations, it also gives players a bonus reward at the end for running with a 1st timer which keeps people happy for having to potentially spend a lil extra time / effort on someone. And then to top it all off at the end of the dungeon it has a positive reinforcement mechanic where you upvote people who you feel deserve praise for helping out in the dungeon. If you've ever played that game, their community is basically the polar opposite of wows and it's because they have systems like that in place.

    There are absolutely things any game company can do to change the attitudes of their players, blizzard simply doesn't do them.
    Last edited by Baconeggcheese; 2015-11-27 at 03:47 AM.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    They can fix the problem by creating systems that promote different player behavior, it's not at all a new or revolutionary concept.

    When league of legends had one of thee most toxic communities to exist in the gaming world to the point where it actually coined the word "toxic" to describe it... they didn't just blame the players. They set out to figure out ways to combat that toxicity.

    There are systems that promote good player behavior, for instance in ff14 the match made dungeons will announce if its someones first time in the dungeon as soon as you load in which changes expectations, it also gives players a bonus reward at the end for running with a 1st timer which keeps people happy for having to potentially spend a lil extra time / effort on someone. And then to top it all off at the end of the dungeon it has a positive reinforcement mechanic where you upvote people who you feel deserve praise for helping out in the dungeon. If you've ever played that game, their community is basically the polar opposite of wows and it's because they have systems like that in place.

    There are absolutely things any game company can do to change the attitudes of their players, blizzard simply doesn't do them.
    Group finder can promote positive behaviour, but players have chosen through artificial inflated requirements to turn it into something else.
    You are saying it is the responsibility of blizzard, instead of those who should take responsibility for their own actions.
    If you are intentionally detrimental to the experience of others, it is YOUR fault only.
    Not that of anybody else.

    Not the fault of blizzard, when they provide more options than ever to be social.
    Players CHOOSE not to.
    There is this persistent rush mentality, so nothing good would be gained from an announcement of a newbie in the content.
    Bribing someone is what you describe, offering a bonus for doing something instead of them actually doing it anyway.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2015-11-27 at 09:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

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