[BETA] Affliction Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

Affliction Warlock – Soul Effigy revised to not provide such a drastic increase in proc chances.

Soul effigy being 25% damage to main target almost feels like a waste of GCD's to cast anything on it.

That's absurd, because procs come off ticks.

It's actually a double nerf, because they've specifically lowered the proc chances on Soul Effigy and reduced the damage transfer by half

I honestly wonder when I think of someone at Blizz saying "hey, that sounds like a really fun mechanic, ,making afflocks do double the work on DOT maintenance for 25% extra damage"

200% of the work for 125% of the damage? It wouldn't surprise me at all to find that Soul Effigy is such a pain in the arse to maintain that the 25% increase isn't worth it and most players will prefer to spend longer spamming Drain Life. Particularly when you're standing next to people playing classes who do better damage without the effort at all - the ones who do cleave passively in their three button rotations.


No thanks. Sounds like "we don't want people to play it" - it's affy's turn to be in the trash.

And affliction's damage is already very mediocre anyway, particularly to the laughable amounts of damage being pumped out by mages and demon hunters.

Sounds like a typical "unbalancing" patch? Mediocre damage? Here, have two nerfs. Totally OP and one-shotting everything in sight with one ability? Stay as you are!

[Fearsom1992]

Affi dmg is fine we lack burst were all ramp up... if you snap shot correctly its awesome, though they nerfed soul conduct and soul effgy they must have really feared affi dmg in the long run.

[Deleted]

It's the classic issue that has bugged DOT users through all of Wow. If you make DOTs decently strong for single target they become overpowered in almost any multi-DOT situation because you can double and triple and quadruple your damage

The solutions so far have been things like Haunt or Drain Soul that act as DOT damage multipliers but which are difficult or impossible to keep up on more than one target

[Grizelda]

I'm sure this opinion isn't popular but I think Cata Shadow Embrace was the best throttle for aff dots.

Easy to keep up on one or two targets but three or 4 was demanding and rewarding.

Haunt could also be that mechanic.

Might as well just give dots diminishing damage returns on all applications past the first.

It's a shame they did not take the opportunity in Legion, with all these talents, to give us the option for cata style play.

[wooters]

Well since Soul Conduit got a whole lot more attractive now, I feel Abs Corruption might be a tad too much for single target at least, you literaly apply 'only' agony then ..

less global cds to interfere with our drains as still a good thing id say, as drain soul and absolute are a good combo.. keeping contagion up grow old fast id imagine

[wholol]

In single target and multi-dot yes, assuming you can manage it. In single target it'll be fairly easy to figure out, in say council or what have you it'll be extremely difficult for people to juggle upwards of 4 dots all of which have a short duration which will devalue the talent due to player error.

For aoe its literally worthless, which makes it a lot less appealing than the other two options since mana tap works in all situations and absolute corruption works with everything except burst aoe. Mana tap is easier to manage than trying to maintain UA in council situations and allows UA to be used entirely around compound interest and trinket procs, and absolute corruption is just flat out easier to manage in council since it removes the need to refresh one of your dots bringing it back down to 2 primary dots and a spender that you can just cast into whatever target.

I actually like contagion because its actually a difficult and rewarding version of a maintenance buff that plays into how players should want to play the spec. I kinda wish it was one of our gold artifact traits. It's just not a super compelling option vs the other ones if they're even mildly balanced.

I see, although seeing the pvp talent tree's multi dotting shard regen perks it might be the superior choice for pvp, but yeah you were talking about raiding which I agree with.

Tbh I don't feel I'm going to be raiding as affliction in legion, honestly totally fed up with affliction/ destro raiding at this point most likely will be raiding as demo and pvping as affliction ( unless some other spec is the superior one which I highly doubt).

[Jessicka]

A lot of people have complained a lot about the very existence of Soul Effigy, never mind that it's been the go-to option. Why surprised at the nerf?

[Duckz0rs]

A lot of people have complained a lot about the very existence of Soul Effigy, never mind that it's been the go-to option. Why surprised at the nerf?

Because it's still Alpha, so a mechanical fix would be more appropriate. This looks more like the kind of kneejerk reaction given to Rain of Fire (although obviously not entirely the same), which tend to only happen once an expac is live.

[Lucrece]

A lot of people have complained a lot about the very existence of Soul Effigy, never mind that it's been the go-to option. Why surprised at the nerf?

Because nerfing something to be crap like the other crap options is hardly the fix people were asking for.

[Deleted]

A lot of people have complained a lot about the very existence of Soul Effigy, never mind that it's been the go-to option. Why surprised at the nerf?

ah yes, but then you need to ask yourself why it was the go-to option, it was simply bcoz it was the option that sucked the least, if go-to options gets nerfed then demon skin will get a pretty spectacular nerf very very soon coz that talent might as well be the only option in that row.

[Deleted]

A lot of people have complained a lot about the very existence of Soul Effigy, never mind that it's been the go-to option. Why surprised at the nerf?

Because it's a typical Bliz solution to a talent-tier issue, where you have one talent that's demonstrably good and two other demonstrably bad, they wield the nerfhammer to make all three equally bad. Same as with the Corruption nerf, which only happened because they realised no one remotely sane was going to pick Mana Tap in preference to it (and they probably still won't, because Mana Tap is terrible, a pain in the ass selfbuff to maintain by throwing away 40% of your mana, followed by endless lifetaps. I fear they will push us into that and that's why Affliction has self-healing coming out of it's ears)

Affliction's tier 100 talents are decidedly uninspiring. Phantom Singularity strikes me as nice for trash packs, but not much use in most boss encounters because it's AOE and most bosses with adds are priority single target adds or cleave, not AOE. And it's slow - 16 seconds.

Soul Conduit is an incredibly dull passive - a 20% RNG to get a shard, whoop de doodle do.

So it's no wonder Effigy was the go-to, because it's obviously better, and because for most boss fights single target on the boss is usually a winner over everything else anyway. Particularly as Effigy has the potential for an afflock to be able to keep up damage when a boss goes into some sort of inaccessible phase.

On top of that...two of our Gold artefact traits look pretty damn awful as well. Soul Flame and Wrath of Consumption also look like they're great on trash, but awful in boss fights, because they only work when something dies.

Consumption might be Okay if the buff never drops off in an encounter, but is that the case?

[Jessicka]

Soul Conduit is an incredibly dull passive - a 20% RNG to get a shard, whoop de doodle do.

Yet I've seen some serious raving over it in Demonology discussion?

ah yes, but then you need to ask yourself why it was the go-to option, it was simply bcoz it was the option that sucked the least, if go-to options gets nerfed then demon skin will get a pretty spectacular nerf very very soon coz that talent might as well be the only option in that row.

Again, about the surprise. This is how Blizzard have operated for at least the past two Betas. It's incredibly rare we see a total rework of an ability, never mind an entire talent row - which is what you're actually asking for.

[Duckz0rs]

Again, about the surprise. This is how Blizzard have operated for at least the past two Betas. It's incredibly rare we see a total rework of an ability, never mind an entire talent row - which is what you're actually asking for.

Like I said in my previous post: That's the whole problem. It's normal behaviour in Beta/Live, but we're in Alpha. Alpha is the point where a total rework of an ability is in order: see the thousands (obvious hyperbole is obvious) of reworks Marksman has gotten since its Alpha release.

[Jessicka]

Like I said in my previous post: That's the whole problem. It's normal behaviour in Beta/Live, but we're in Alpha. Alpha is the point where a total rework of an ability is in order: see the thousands (obvious hyperbole is obvious) of reworks Marksman has gotten since its Alpha release.

If they hadn't announced a release date 4 months away, I'd agree that you had a point. It's too late now to expect the kind of changes you're asking for. But it is what it is and we're now at a point where there's less time until release than any Beta build has been open; calling it Alpha at this point is at best splitting hairs and arguing functionally unnecessary semantics. Honestly I think calling it an Alpha in the first place has been one hell of a PR stunt to raise those levels of expectations in terms of influence over change participants would think they had to begin with.

[Duckz0rs]

If they hadn't announced a release date 4 months away, I'd agree that you had a point. It's too late now to expect the kind of changes you're asking for. But it is what it is and we're now at a point where there's less time until release than any Beta build has been open; calling it Alpha at this point is at best splitting hairs and arguing functionally unnecessary semantics. Honestly I think calling it an Alpha in the first place has been one hell of a PR stunt to raise those levels of expectations in terms of influence over change participants would think they had to begin with.

But that's the thing, they have listened throughout alpha and made changes based on feedback. Whether for good or bad and to what extent can be argued on, but they have most definitely listened to the players and made mechanical changes. Sure, the extent varies wildly per class and even spec, but it's rather disingenuous to say they haven't made substantial changes over the course of the Alpha.

On the other hand, yeah, I agree on the current state - it's closer to beta than alpha at this point. And as much as I'd like to believe otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with you that we won't see any more substantial changes to mechanics from Destro's release on out. The naming at this point, yeah, pretty much is arguing semantics. I'll still hold out hope that we'll see a change to at least the two troublesome Gold Artifact Traits though.

[Deleted]

its sad to see how they did such a good job with all 3 mage specs , but they completely ruined affliction.

since Cataclysm we we went from the ramp up , execute style , up to the the live version of the top 3 burst specs.

its clear that they lack direction on affliction , they just change the playstyle too much every xpac.

now ? now its like they threw a few ideas together , but none of them is finished or polished enough to say the core mechanics are done.

you have weak multi dot , you have weak single target , they completely removed burst part (this is what made afflict good in WoD), the execute part .

you are now a ramp up spec that just do mediocre dps at best , with no burst , no execute . which is quite odd if you ask me

the good thing right now on the beta is AoE cleave , and you are the one of the best specs on that duty. but thats about it

i feel like demo lock on live , without the meta.

the affliction in its current state is INCOMPLETE , i really hope for some core changes and directions on where the spec is going

but right now there is no reason to bring affliction exept for the aoe/ cleave fights , you dont excel at anything anymore

and by the looks of it , they started the tuning , so this late into the beta , i doubt it that we are going to see any change

its will be a sad xpac for affy , with the usual mid xpac buffs to compensate the broken core mechanics in order to push the spec

[Deleted]

its sad to see how they did such a good job with all 3 mage specs , but they completely ruined affliction.

since Cataclysm we we went from the ramp up , execute style , up to the the live version of the top 3 burst specs.

its clear that they lack direction on affliction , they just change the playstyle too much every xpac.

now ? now its like they threw a few ideas together , but none of them is finished or polished enough to say the core mechanics are done.

you have weak multi dot , you have weak single target , they completely removed burst part (this is what made afflict good in WoD), the execute part .

you are now a ramp up spec that just do mediocre dps at best , with no burst , no execute . which is quite odd if you ask me

the good thing right now on the beta is AoE cleave , and you are the one of the best specs on that duty. but thats about it

i feel like demo lock on live , without the meta.

the affliction in its current state is INCOMPLETE , i really hope for some core changes and directions on where the spec is going

but right now there is no reason to bring affliction exept for the aoe/ cleave fights , you dont excel at anything anymore

and by the looks of it , they started the tuning , so this late into the beta , i doubt it that we are going to see any change

its will be a sad xpac for affy , with the usual mid xpac buffs to compensate the broken core mechanics in order to push the spec

yeah, its not like they havent done a tuning pass yet.......oh wait they havent done a tuning pass yet!!

gotta love those ppl that complain about a spec's supposed lack of dps when in the current stage dps doesnt matter at all, like literally not at all, only thing that matters atm is making the mechanics and the playstyle of each spec work properly, and then comes the tuning passes which prolly wont come for another 2-3 months, so lets put aside thise whining about a matter that really doesnt matter atm.

fyi, there is absolutely no need for the extra spacing between the lines, makes you look like a troll, ofc if you are, then congrats you succeeded.

[Fearsom1992]

But that's the thing, they have listened throughout alpha and made changes based on feedback. Whether for good or bad and to what extent can be argued on, but they have most definitely listened to the players and made mechanical changes. Sure, the extent varies wildly per class and even spec, but it's rather disingenuous to say they haven't made substantial changes over the course of the Alpha.

On the other hand, yeah, I agree on the current state - it's closer to beta than alpha at this point. And as much as I'd like to believe otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with you that we won't see any more substantial changes to mechanics from Destro's release on out. The naming at this point, yeah, pretty much is arguing semantics. I'll still hold out hope that we'll see a change to at least the two troublesome Gold Artifact Traits though.

yea but they haven' changed the important stuff we cept asking for... like why 2/3 of our gold perks are shit soul flame is good maybe on 3 fights , scorpion guy, cenairus , and xavius that and soul harvest feels required since siphon life doesnt scale with our mastery or reap soul and i think rng on spawning souls needs to be higher

[Deleted]

almara2512 , i dont understand where this is coming from , but you obviously read only my last sentence ? if you reread what i posted , you will see that i complain about the CORE mechanics of the spec , not the DMG numbers (i said that only in my last sentence , as they do this every xpac).Ofcourse the dmg tune is not done yet , im not an idiot. seems like you just need to argue for the sake of argue and you read only what you want , ignoring the other part of the post.

FYI do you like the walls of text? i will type as i want to , its my prefered method to space sentences in order for people to read it easily.
seems like you are the troll , calling people trolls

[Soulzar]

Soul Conduit is an incredibly dull passive - a 20% RNG to get a shard, whoop de doodle do.

Yet I've seen some serious raving over it in Demonology discussion?

For Demo, numbers aside its my fav talent on the row by far.