[BETA] Affliction Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

almara2512 , i dont understand where this is coming from , but you obviously read only my last sentence ? if you reread what i posted , you will see that i complain about the CORE mechanics of the spec , not the DMG numbers (i said that only in my last sentence , as they do this every xpac).Ofcourse the dmg tune is not done yet , im not an idiot. seems like you just need to argue for the sake of argue and you read only what you want , ignoring the other part of the post.

FYI do you like the walls of text? i will type as i want to , its my prefered method to space sentences in order for people to read it easily.
seems like you are the troll , calling people trolls

in what world is complaining about having "weak" multidotting, "weak" single target, doing mediocre dps with no burst or execute, not you complaining about the dmg?

fyi, just becoz you prefer to do it that way to make it easier read, doesnt mean that it actually is, thats just your belief that it is, in my opinion it makes it less readable.

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For Demo, numbers aside its my fav talent on the row by far.

that makes sense tho, with demo by far being the spec that generates the most shards but also uses the most shards, it should atleast be a half way decent talent for demo. for afflic and destro i think its needs to change or atleast be buffed, coz those 2 specs just doesnt get as many chances for a proc with it.

[Baconeggcheese]

A lot of people have complained a lot about the very existence of Soul Effigy, never mind that it's been the go-to option. Why surprised at the nerf?

Most of the feedback given on the alpha forums was about the implementation as opposed to the spell / idea itself. It's a 2nd target to dot up preferably balanced for single target situations, which would make it perfectly fine for an aff talent since multi-dot is what aff does.

[Deleted]

For Demo, numbers aside its my fav talent on the row by far.

Because Demonology has creates and burns shards like crazy, therefore, it's a worthwhile talent. Plus demonology has enough fund stuff going on that a passive talent isn't too bad.

Affy strikes me as a combination of boring or annoying, and in some cases boring and annoying

And I'm a longtime afflock

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gotta love those ppl that complain about a spec's supposed lack of dps when in the current stage dps doesnt matter at all, like literally not at all, only thing that matters atm is making the mechanics and the playstyle of each spec work properly, and then comes the tuning passes which prolly wont come for another 2-3 months, so lets put aside thise whining about a matter that really doesnt matter atm..

Well when the guy was complaining about long ramp-ups, lack of burst and lack of burn phase abilities and sucky cooldowns he was complaining about mechanics

[Deleted]

Well when the guy was complaining about long ramp-ups, lack of burst and lack of burn phase abilities and sucky cooldowns he was complaining about mechanics

true, altho i would say that "lack of burst and lack of burn phase abilities" is technically complaining about lack of dps, i think we can both agree that it was mostly complaints about "weak" dps, ofc that doesnt mean i wouldnt agree that afflic has some mechanics issues that needs to be looked into or improved upon.

[Lucrece]

I don't understand why they took away dot empowers like malefic grasp/drain soul, which allowed us to be strong on single target and do burst alongside haunt, and proceeded to dump back our strength into dots that will be nerfed down the line if they're too strong in a multidot scenario.

It's like they want to repeat the fiasco of previous xpacs, and I've always hated that affliction is burdened with lack of burst, which in turn disadvantages it in PvE relative to other specs like Shadow priests and Moonkins who can not only multidot but burst as well.

And the side effect of that as well is that it pigeonholes affliction in PvE to basically only have value as a spread pressure spec.

They should make Haunt baseline to be honest as our burst spell, make it do % extra damage per dot on the target.

Give us back soul swap.

They should just merge drain soul with life drain for affliction, make it drain HP so we keep a nice nuke visual.

[courtlung]

...and Moonkins who can not only multidot but burst as well...

Just looked over the Moonkin talents/artifact, they look like they're in a very good place, and you're right, they have 2 (3 talented) strong DoTs (all 3 currently tuned to do more dps than UA while lasting longer, although they obviously can't stack), some high damage nukes, strong cleave and effective cooldowns. Solid survivability from talents/traits too (multiple heals, 30s CD blink). I imagine a lot of the SP scaling numbers will change for affliction and balance with tuning, but mechanically affliction seems like it is missing a laundry list of capabilities compared to balance, what gives?

[Lucrece]

Just looked over the Moonkin talents/artifact, they look like they're in a very good place, and you're right, they have 2 (3 talented) strong DoTs (all 3 currently tuned to do more dps than UA while lasting longer, although they obviously can't stack), some high damage nukes, strong cleave and effective cooldowns. Solid survivability from talents/traits too (multiple heals, 30s CD blink). I imagine a lot of the SP scaling numbers will change for affliction and balance with tuning, but mechanically affliction seems like it is missing a laundry list of capabilities compared to balance, what gives?

Balance druid AoE is total shit. Starfall is massively nerfed, requires ramp up since the damage of starfall is mediocre, it costs a huge chunk of astral power, which competes with starsurge so their single target suffers, and the AoE comes from Starfall empowering the dots so you gotta multidot targets before you even pop Starfall.

In terms of mobility, same applies. Balance druids have a rotational 2.5 sec cast ability in Lunar Strike, which makes them one of the more turret specs. They have a 30 sec cd blink that puts them in cat form so they gotta spend two globals to teleport while other casters need only use one.

Quite frankly, I see shadow priests as the better multidotter of the bunch, with demo/aff probably being the better aoe caster while the other two have much stronger burst.

Another problem is that warlocks by far saw the most pruning where they took away all their tools and turned them into talents, which makes the experience as a warlock particularly bitter.

[Canitank]

Hello fellow Warlock enthusiasts!

I've been trying to keep up with the discussion going on here in regards to Affliction changes/current state on the Alpha. I have Alpha access and have been leveling my Affliction Warlock when I have some spare time, but to be honest have no real idea what I'm doing. I do have a laundry list of issues/personal opinions that I plan to post on the official class feedback forums soon, but we know that doesn't matter because most of them are the same issues that people have been mentioning for the last couple of builds.

Now what I'm wondering is that if there are any of you much more knowledgeable people out there that can help me with what the best/proper use of UA would be in it's current state? Keeping DoTs rolling on ST or even two if you include Effigy isn't hard, but I can't really figure out how to make the best use of the new UA. I understand that it uses ignite like mechanics so am I better to 1. just refresh it as it is about to fall off (if I have the shards), 2. just use UA whenever I have a shard available, 3. wait for 3-5 shards and stack a bigger UA on the target in a sort of burst type fashion?

In the current build what are looking like the generally accepted talents for the most DPS? Because now I feel whether or not I take Contagion could impact the answer to my previous question.

Also for anybody interested my experience with the new build with the changes to Effigy I feel like on ST that generating shards is a real struggle.

[Baconeggcheese]

I can't really figure out how to make the best use of the new UA.

With current tuning I imagine we'll be gaming compound interest above all else. With contagion you'd obviously want to maximize up time, with fatal echoes you want to time it so the re-application happens just after UA falls off for the potential chance to refresh.

Any additional shards outside of that you treat like any other spender. The ignite mechanic isn't specifically there with the intention of being gamed, it's just there so that you can spend shards freely.

[Canitank]

With current tuning I imagine we'll be gaming compound interest above all else. With contagion you'd obviously want to maximize up time, with fatal echoes you want to time it so the re-application happens just after UA falls off for the potential chance to refresh.

Any additional shards outside of that you treat like any other spender. The ignite mechanic isn't specifically there with the intention of being gamed, it's just there so that you can spend shards freely.

Thanks for pointing that out! Now I sort of have a bit more of an idea of which artifact traits to work towards. Seeing as 2/3 of out gold traits don't feel too great considering they require a target to die would that make it more ideal to work towards all the smaller traits and passive traits due to how Soul Reaper currently works?

The more I think about the current talent choices and artifact traits available the more I feel like Affliction is getting the short straw. Hopefully tuning can change things a bit.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Canitank I'd be surprised if the traits don't see significant changes at some point. Alpha is alpha.

In the event that they don't we'll be balanced accordingly, so it just means aff will have a stronger baseline or other traits get buffed up. Compound interest should be a gold trait as its easily the most important trait on the tree at the moment. From there I'd say what we grab is gonna depend on tuning etc.

[Deleted]

I don't understand why they took away dot empowers like malefic grasp/drain soul, which allowed us to be strong on single target and do burst alongside haunt, and proceeded to dump back our strength into dots that will be nerfed down the line if they're too strong in a multidot scenario.

It's like they want to repeat the fiasco of previous xpacs, and I've always hated that affliction is burdened with lack of burst, which in turn disadvantages it in PvE relative to other specs like Shadow priests and Moonkins who can not only multidot but burst as well.

And the side effect of that as well is that it pigeonholes affliction in PvE to basically only have value as a spread pressure spec.

They should make Haunt baseline to be honest as our burst spell, make it do % extra damage per dot on the target.

Give us back soul swap.

They should just merge drain soul with life drain for affliction, make it drain HP so we keep a nice nuke visual.

Because they are stuck with an unsolvable problem, which is basically if you give anyone DOTs strong enough to compete on single target they will absolutely dominate any situation where they can DOT up multiple targets - so long as they live long enough for the DOTs to run, i.e. it is not a pure AOE fest

Blizz have never managed to resolve this, and for as long as I have been playing (since vanilla) afflocks (and spriests too) have endured the pendulum swings as Blizz have had strong DOTs, hit the problem, nerfed the DOTs and left us gimped, and in between there were sticking plaster solutions like DOT multipliers that were difficult (Haunt) or impossible (Drain Soul) to have on more than one target (another variant in Wrath was to have afflocks always use the Felhunter because Shadowbit did more damage on a DOTed target)

I guess the stacking effect of UA is another attempt at squaring the circle

[wooters]

Soul Conduit is an incredibly dull passive - a 20% RNG to get a shard..

Yet I've seen some serious raving over it in Demonology discussion?

I think most would agree % increases shouldn`t be in the talent section. its so incredible lazy of blizz. no one is questioning its effectiveness.. I for one, hope something else ends up in that slot eventually

[Deleted]

Soul Conduit is an incredibly dull passive - a 20% RNG to get a shard..




I think most would agree % increases shouldn`t be in the talent section. its so incredible lazy of blizz. no one is questioning its effectiveness.. I for one, hope something else ends up in that slot eventually

the problem with soul conduit is that it needs a fairly high shard consumption to be effective, something that destro and afflic just doesnt have, if you play destro or afflic you would prolly be better off using another talent, soul conduit certainly needs to be buffed quite a bit to reach the lvl of effectiveness it has for demo if you use it as destro or afflic that is for certain.

[bio347]

the problem with soul conduit is that it needs a fairly high shard consumption to be effective, something that destro and afflic just doesnt have, if you play destro or afflic you would prolly be better off using another talent, soul conduit certainly needs to be buffed quite a bit to reach the lvl of effectiveness it has for demo if you use it as destro or afflic that is for certain.

That's not really true, no. What really matters with limited resources like soul shards is how much damage each individual unit represents. Demonology naturally generates and spends far more shards than the other two specs, but each shard is also necessarily worth less damage. That's what balances Soul Conduit.

[Gaidax]

That's not really true, no. What really matters with limited resources like soul shards is how much damage each individual unit represents. Demonology naturally generates and spends far more shards than the other two specs, but each shard is also necessarily worth less damage. That's what balances Soul Conduit.

This basically, a shard for Destruction worth a lot more than a shard for Demo. I can say that for Destruction Soul Conduit is invaluable simply because of it's magnificent synergy with Eradication and Reverse Entropy.

[Deleted]

This basically, a shard for Destruction worth a lot more than a shard for Demo. I can say that for Destruction Soul Conduit is invaluable simply because of it's magnificent synergy with Eradication and Reverse Entropy.

i completely agree, but you also have to factor in the shard generation and usage and for demo that might just be big enough to offset the value of shards in terms of dmg, bcoz shard usage for demo doesnt just result in more dmg from pets, it also results in more dmg from demonbolt/implosion. it certainly isnt as cut and dry as simply the value of a shard for each spec.

[garonne]

i completely agree, but you also have to factor in the shard generation and usage and for demo that might just be big enough to offset the value of shards in terms of dmg, bcoz shard usage for demo doesnt just result in more dmg from pets, it also results in more dmg from demonbolt/implosion. it certainly isnt as cut and dry as simply the value of a shard for each spec.

your but isn't actually a but mate, you said the same thing just in different words.

for anyone who doesn't get it tho see below.

we're gonna assume all the specs do the same 100 damage after the end of the fight.

if demo produces 100 shards throughout the fight and it accounts for 70% of the damage (pets, demon bolt, tha'l discord etc) then each shard is worth .7% damage

if destro produces 25 shards and it accounts for 50% damage, each shard is worth 2.0% of the damage.
2.0 > 0.7
each shard production for destro becomes more important as it allots more damage and the same for affliction.

edit: something ive just noticed after doing the math is, the more damage % of your overall damage comes from shards, the stronger soul conduit is.

[Deleted]

your but isn't actually a but mate, you said the same thing just in different words.

for anyone who doesn't get it tho see below.

we're gonna assume all the specs do the same 100 damage after the end of the fight.

if demo produces 100 shards throughout the fight and it accounts for 70% of the damage (pets, demon bolt, tha'l discord etc) then each shard is worth .7% damage

if destro produces 25 shards and it accounts for 50% damage, each shard is worth 2.0% of the damage.
2.0 > 0.7
each shard production for destro becomes more important as it allots more damage and the same for affliction.

edit: something ive just noticed after doing the math is, the more damage % of your overall damage comes from shards, the stronger soul conduit is.

you dont get what it is im saying tho, im debating the value of soul conduit for specs like destro/afflic vs demo not the value of the shards themselves and using your example as a reference destro would get 5 shards from SC where as demo would get 20 shards that means soul conduit would be worth 10% overall dmg for destro but a total of 14% for demo, outpacing destro by a whopping 40%(in this example its actually closer to 50%), clearly showing that shard consumption matters just as much as shard value, if not more.

[garonne]

you dont get what it is im saying tho, im debating the value of soul conduit for specs like destro/afflic vs demo not the value of the shards themselves and using your example as a reference destro would get 5 shards from SC where as demo would get 20 shards that means soul conduit would be worth 10% overall dmg for destro but a total of 14% for demo, outpacing destro by a whopping 40%(in this example its actually closer to 50%), clearly showing that shard consumption matters just as much as shard value, if not more.

i get what you're saying now and i do agree that depending on how much damage is coming from shards the talent SC can valued higher. when it comes down to it tho, SC for affliction isn't balanced on how well it does for demo or destro but the other two talents in that row (soul effigy and phantom)