[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

before leishen trinket locks were much more important during progress than mages for almost every boss mechanics.
UVoLS just made demo incredibly strong in every situation beside ra-den where you would still stack the fuck out of destro locks in order to make Essence Animas a non issue

like i wrote in my previous post, that had nothing to do with lock's dmg but rather their survivability, in terms of dmg locks were rather meh overall in ToT.

[Slashkill]

I'd rather see our mastery somewhat like "Increases critical strike damage by up to X%. Spell criticals have an X% chance to generate a soul shard". Blizzard seems to have forgotten that the spec is called "Destruction", not "Chaos". Randomness in resource generation, random mastery... Not sure about that. Granted, I rarely have the downtime in casting CB, it's almost always there when I need it and I almost always have the Eradication debuff on target, and when the legendary belt (25% chance to generate a soulshard with fire spells) comes to beta resource is not gonna be an issue at all, but it's still random. It just feels bad.

Second issue is indeed spell interaction. Fireball builds up it's crit chance with every cast and interacts with instant pyroblast, arcane blast builds up arcane charges when arcane barrage spends them, shadow bolt builds up shards for other demo spells. Incinerate... does nothing but damage. Yes, it's damage is good, but I would trade it's portion any time for any kind of interaction. Even back in BC, when it just appeared, it used to deal more damage on immolated targets (still proved ineffective compared to SM-Ruin shadowbolts but it's whole different story). Give it some interaction with immolate or any other spell, the spec would already feel more fluid than it is now.

Sorry if my english is bad, haven't practiced it in a while. Destruction's really grown on me in the past 3 expansions, and now it feels like it's being devolved into some kind of a demi-spec you play until you get enough gear to play aff/demo...

[Gaidax]

We are pretty much swimming in Soul Shards as is anyway, current mastery is okayish really, but it would be lovely for it to have some sort of set floor like spell getting no less than let's say 40% of the stated benefit.

[Slashkill]

We are pretty much swimming in Soul Shards as is anyway, current mastery is okayish really, but it would be lovely for it to have some sort of set floor like spell getting no less than let's say 40% of the stated benefit.

Yeah, the soul shard part is just random thing that came to my mind. I'd much rather see our mastery interact with crit really. Or interact with anything, because again, it's just damage increase and no interaction...

[Bidis]

Incinerate would be really nice if it had some interaction with other spells. Some ideas could be:

-[Minor to Moderate] chance to add a stack of Conflagrate
-[Moderate] Chance to refresh Immolate.
-[Minor] Chance of next Chaos Bolt to be instant
-[Minor] Chance of next Chaos Bolt to cost One Soul Shard

Still consistency is what really worries me. For instance would the spec be able to consistently solo adds in a raid fight if called for?

[bio347]

Incinerate would be really nice if it had some interaction with other spells.

How about this: Incinerate has a chance to refund a Rift charge. Because guess what? It already does that!

[JV Chequer]

Do you guys have a clue about secondaries priorities right now?

Looks like Crit > Haste > Mastery to me but I'm not quite sure.

[Sylar Hao]

How about this: Incinerate has a chance to refund a Rift charge. Because guess what? It already does that!

You need to reach past level +100 and get some trait points on a weapon that we don't know yet if it will stay with us after the expansion ends (my bet is not). So Up until then Incinerate has 0 interaction with the rest of the spells. At least with Burning Embers incineration had synergies.

[bio347]

I'll buy that it may not be that exciting for the first... what, month? of the expansion plus the pre-patch. But on the whole you'll be spending waaaaaaaaaaay more time with Incinerate interacting with stuff than you will with the opposite. The artifact traits are an integral part of the specs they're attached to, and to pretend they won't exist the entire time because you'll spend a month or two without all of it is pretty silly.

And really, what does it matter if it doesn't last after the expansion, though? That's a totally artificial complaint, as if they won't be redesigning the classes to make up for the loss of the artifacts if/when they go.

[Sylar Hao]

The only trait that makes Incinerate interact with the rest of the kit is the one you mentioned. And it's an increadibly chance as low as 6% to happen. Chances are that while you do your "rotation" with the rest of spells you won't get a single proc from it while the CD on the Rifts wears off.

Artifical complaint? I wasn't complaining and it's definitely not artificial. What's the point of revamp every single spec and tune and rework everything around a weapon that will only last one expansion (most likely) and then have to redisign again everything to make up for what we'll be losing. If artifacts are here to stay and the system will expand with every expansion afterwards, then it is a nice addition, but if it's only a one-expansion thing I find it a waste of resources and they could make better redesigns or revamps of all the specs, because seriously, most of the specs have received very nice changes or revamps in Legion, but Destruction ain't one of them. MoP Destro was better designed, period.

But then again, that's just my opinion.

[Gaidax]

It procs quite a bit actually and Rifts do more damage than Chaos Bolt, except for CB rift which does a bit less. You also will have that trait pretty fast, maybe a week of playing at worst.

And yes, who gives a damn about expansion after that, for all we know we will be having artifact pants that will make Incinerate proc Chaos Bunnies that spam Cataclysm on your enemies in Wrath of Queen Azshara or whatever expansion that comes afterwards.

[garonne]

Locks got nerfed every patch in MoP, demo especially, they nerfed the lock in tot, then the trinket and then the lock again. don't go saying warlocks weren't op in MoP, we were Gods among men. we were good at EVERYTHING. mechanically a lock had the potential to be number 1 on each fight in mop. however, the nerfs fucked us up at the beginning of the patches and we made up for it at the end.

[Deleted]

I really don't get all the fuss about the randomness of mastery. Nobody complained about multistrike being a stat. Nobody complains about demonbolt being able to crit.

Destruction relies heavy on crit but has it's main spell always crit. Mastery will add the randomness of crit on CB. Unlike currently atleast Mastery adds to every spell this time.

Is it original... no not really, but most masteries are pretty bland to begin with being just +X damage.

[Bidis]

How about this: Incinerate has a chance to refund a Rift charge. Because guess what? It already does that!

The only trait that makes Incinerate interact with the rest of the kit is the one you mentioned. And it's an increadibly chance as low as 6% to happen. Chances are that while you do your "rotation" with the rest of spells you won't get a single proc from it while the CD on the Rifts wears off.

Artifical complaint? I wasn't complaining and it's definitely not artificial. What's the point of revamp every single spec and tune and rework everything around a weapon that will only last one expansion (most likely) and then have to redisign again everything to make up for what we'll be losing. If artifacts are here to stay and the system will expand with every expansion afterwards, then it is a nice addition, but if it's only a one-expansion thing I find it a waste of resources and they could make better redesigns or revamps of all the specs, because seriously, most of the specs have received very nice changes or revamps in Legion, but Destruction ain't one of them. MoP Destro was better designed, period.

But then again, that's just my opinion.

I totally agree with Sylar. Many baseline abilities were re-added as talents, they could at least have Incinerate's interaction not tied to an item but to the spec itself.
On another note has anyone figured out how the type of Rift spawned is decided? Is there any correlation whatsoever with say stacks, previous spell cast or is it simply random aka "chaotic".

- - - Updated - - -

for all we know we will be having artifact pants that will make Incinerate proc Chaos Bunnies that spam Cataclysm on your enemies in Wrath of Queen Azshara or whatever expansion that comes afterwards.

Like these but greener?


- - - Updated - - -

On another note has anyone figured out how the type of Rift spawned is decided? Is there any correlation whatsoever with say stacks, previous spell cast or is it simply random aka "chaotic".

And to answer my question: http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=1965...-rift#comments

[bio347]

, they could at least have Incinerate's interaction not tied to an item but to the spec itself.

This "item" is intrinsically tied to the spec itself. You're never not going to have it, and it'll be filled out for the vast, vast majority of the expansion. To pretend it doesn't exist would be like pretending talents don't exist.

[Gaidax]

This "item" is intrinsically tied to the spec itself. You're never not going to have it, and it'll be filled out for the vast, vast majority of the expansion. To pretend it doesn't exist would be like pretending talents don't exist.

People still seem not to realize this simple fact.

[digesspliff]

I really don't get all the fuss about the randomness of mastery. Nobody complained about multistrike being a stat. Nobody complains about demonbolt being able to crit.

Destruction relies heavy on crit but has it's main spell always crit. Mastery will add the randomness of crit on CB. Unlike currently atleast Mastery adds to every spell this time.

Is it original... no not really, but most masteries are pretty bland to begin with being just +X damage.

Current live mastery adds damage to incinerate immolate and conflag as well, although not as apparent because lol charred remains. But yeah beta mastery...imagine the usual scenario where you are saving "resources" for an important add, only for chaos bolt to hit pretty close to a incinerate crit just feels wrong. the suggested idea posted here of adding some kind of floor value to the mastery is a good start, i.e with 60% mastery you have a chance to deal 20%-40% extra dmg as opposed to 0-60%.
my 2 cents

[Bidis]

This "item" is intrinsically tied to the spec itself. You're never not going to have it, and it'll be filled out for the vast, vast majority of the expansion. To pretend it doesn't exist would be like pretending talents don't exist.

People still seem not to realize this simple fact.

It's not about realizations or understanding. What I am very simply stating is that I'd like to keep the changes on the spec's theme a bit more. I hope this is explicit enough

[Gaidax]

It's not about realizations or understanding. What I am very simply stating is that I'd like to keep the changes on the spec's theme a bit more. I hope this is explicit enough

It is integral part of the spec for this expansion. It's not an "item". It is for all intents and purposes additional spec talent tree.

[Bidis]

It is integral part of the spec for this expansion. It's not an "item". It is for all intents and purposes additional spec talent tree.

I agree. Still, I like my changes on the spec/class directly rather than anything else. But that's just my opinion and it may easily change when I actually get to play with it.