[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Baconeggcheese]

I doubt that Destro's AoE will be anything to write home about. They seem pretty interested in making Destro the undisputed 2-target cleave spec with Havoc. I imagine we'll have competitive AoE due to being able to continue our 2 target cleave while RoF is on-going, but I don't think it'll be crazy good like it is now.

If anything I'd imagine Implosion for Demo will be the true AoE king, at least as far as Warlocks are concerned.

Implosions got the same vibe as current demo which is burst.

I'm kind of curious who's gonna have the sustained aoe that we currently have if anyone. I agree though, they want to get back to that cleave niche that they clearly intended for the spec but never actually made happen.

[Terryn]

I think destro will still have the best sustained aoe after talents, with afl ahead of it only if the fight allows the shard generation.

Destro is DEFINITELY going to be king of add snip damage and 2 target, especially with the new havoc

[Kirroth]

I'm kind of curious who's gonna have the sustained aoe that we currently have if anyone. I agree though, they want to get back to that cleave niche that they clearly intended for the spec but never actually made happen.

Maybe Afflic? It's not exactly steady damage but they can sustain casting Seed pretty well. Since you'll want 5+ targets to get the most out of Sow the Seeds, just spreading Agony around a bit in between detonating them might be plenty to keep you going. Though that might depend on how much focused attention you need to detonate the first and start each chain reaction.

[Deleted]

Implosions got the same vibe as current demo which is burst.

I'm kind of curious who's gonna have the sustained aoe that we currently have if anyone. I agree though, they want to get back to that cleave niche that they clearly intended for the spec but never actually made happen.

well that can only really be destro bcoz they are the only ones that doesnt have to spend shards to do, afflic have sow the seeds which costs shards and demo uses their pets(eventho its weird setup, coz 1 ability requires you to have pets out, while another spends them, i guess it is a way to use your pets b4 they despawn, and a 3rd hits only targets with doom on them) and is therefor limited in that department, so to me it seems destro will sit on the same niche its had in the past, just with improved cleaves.

one would think that they wanted the specs to be somewhat equal since we're more or less being forced into 1 spec and stay with that 1 spec.

[wooters]

Not that they are going to obviously...but if specs stays relative the same. bet affliction are going to easily dominate big sustained aoe fights. tons of shards coming in, to sow those seeds efficiently as a pro farmer..and a minimum two dots on everything that moves. can`t wait. pop infernal perhaps..to start off the first batch

[Deleted]

Not that they are going to obviously...but if specs stays relative the same. bet affliction are going to easily dominate big sustained aoe fights. tons of shards coming in, to sow those seeds efficiently as a pro farmer..and a minimum two dots on everything that moves. can`t wait. pop infernal perhaps..to start off the first batch

destro's aoe is really really strong atleast if you look at the talents and how much dmg they actually do. literally, channel demonfire+cataclysm does about the same dmg as 5 sow the seed destructions assuming you hit 5 mobs, and you do it in a lot less time as well without spending soulshards, id say that is pretty freaking powerfull as well. just think about it, in 6 sec you would deal 2250% spellpower worth of dmg and what makes it even better, those spells are even useful for ST, sow the seeds is not. then add rain of fire which is going to be destro's main aoe, so im assuming it will get a significant buff AND RoF can rain infernals.

[Baconeggcheese]

Seeds are basically area dmg though, which means it scales with more targets better than anything any of our other specs is going to have.

Its basically the same issue as enh shamans in highmaul.

[Deleted]

well you cant really say sow the seeds scales with more targets as it is limited to hitting 5 targets max, meaning that no matter how many targets gets hit, they at max each loose 5*100% spelldmg, cataclysm still does 50% more dmg AND scales further from mastery, something sow the seeds doesnt and we still dont know just how much dmg RoF will do dmgwise when it hopefully gets a buff AND rains infernals. in either case, destro looks like its going to be similar to how demo was in the old days when their aoe burst was spread out on 3-4 buttons, its certainly going to be engaging, dunno yet if thats a good or a bad thing atm due to blizz being so slow to release said specs.

[MrHappy]

honestly my biggest fear is there have been ZERO improvements to the mobility of Destro. Yes Not all specs/classes needs to be "mobile" but desto is less mobile than fucking Arcane Mages right now. Having CB cost 2x as much (hopefully dealing 2x the damage or at least having secondary effects) destro feels gutted.

The whole portals and artifact portals are unclear as to how/what they buff. maybe those buffs aid in mobility but that's a long shot. Teleport now a talent that you will never pick because sac pac the only source of movement is back draft cast and gateway. Maybe if RoF doesn't deal negative dps then it is another global we can use on the movement but given that how mana is back to icc/cata levels i doubt we would even cast it ST even if we have to move a lot...

no AoE CB also gutted our aoe burst dps. Having FnB as a passive for inc only is ...meh.

It seems like Demo going to be the goto spec for legion with its fantastic mobility, in theory really good aoe and potentially good ST with a haste build

need to do testing of course but 1st impressions are Demo MS destro OS for 2 target cleave oonly

[Deleted]

well mobility for destro atm really comes down to how much dmg rain of fire is going to do, as it will surely get a buff and if so then it can be a powerful ability to use while moving.

[MrHappy]

well mobility for destro atm really comes down to how much dmg rain of fire is going to do, as it will surely get a buff and if so then it can be a powerful ability to use while moving.

it's not about the damage it about mana. you will be life tapping as destro in legion. if RoF costs 1/3 of your mana i don't think that it is worth it as you will have to spend a gcd getting your mana back.

[Baconeggcheese]

it is limited to hitting 5 targets max

Tbh, didn't ever read the tooltip since its been bugged to be baseline. Fair nuff, blizzard did a smart this time.

[Kirroth]

Tbh, didn't ever read the tooltip since its been bugged to be baseline. Fair nuff, blizzard did a smart this time.

It's actually really smart it's built. Afflic looks to be the top dog for sustained AoE on large packs, but the effect drops significantly if you have less than 5 targets or targets are dying before you can detonate their Seed. The leaves Destro dominant for cleave and add sniping and Demo with whatever the hell niche it ends up being good at.

[Baconeggcheese]

Affliction has adds exploding when they die though, so it double dips there as far as aoe is concerned.

Whether or not that works out well is another thing, either way its good that they capped the scaling.

[Deleted]

its way way too early to make any claim as to which spec is going to be top dog at anything, 2 specs havent even been released yet and afflic is bugged, and they havent even adjusted numbers yet either.

[MrHappy]

this isn't about numbers...at least not to me. This is about QoL. Aff is described as clunky not weak. Destro (at least at this point in time) feels like it is lacking QoL in regards to mobility, mana management, RNG elements to the dps (too much imo). I hope i'm wrong as i like the spec but need to see more details. rather be skeptical and be pleasantly surprised than to hype and be disappointed.

[Purpleisbetter]

The new havoc design (like the old one) gets me, somehow, excited about WoD .

What i don't understand is the new FnB. By looking at the tooltip, doesnt seem to act as the old FnB (which makes sense, since the mastery changed).

How do u think it will work with Havoc? Baseline Incinerate is a ST spell, so, in case of a stacked 2 targets cleave, isn't it going to be basically a 300ish%SP filler? With 3 chances per cast to trigger a mastery proc. [Or is it more like 400ish, like adding a hefty 200% on Incinerate damage? As in: 100% because it gets doubled by Havoc, and another 100% because its infact a volley of 2 Incinerates ?]
Now don't pay too much attention to the SP coefficient, i know its alpha. Its the mechanics it scares a bit.

FnB - Reverse Entropy - Eradication - Random T90, the one mathematically higher(GoSup?) Wreak Havoc | not taking account of Artifact talents

Havoc;
Immolate, assuming Havoc will copy it as usual;
CB, Eradication up;
CB (0/4 SS left);
1 Conf (2/4 SS left);
2-3 Incinerate (18,24% base mana burned by spamming the filler) -> basically until Confla comes off CD;
CB (so u can reapply Eradication);
1 Conf (we should've recharged the first stack by now);
...
[its pretty much rinse and repeat, keeping up all the stuff]
With the idea on banking 2 shards for a strong proc for back-to-Back CB (which we should manage thru Immo procs and Artifact talents)

I do not consider artifact-ed RoF because, hell (pun intended) no idea if its going to be worth on a 2 target scenario even if it literally rains mo**ing infernals (which will be imp sized i hope) given the abysmal base damage and massive mana cost.
But if it is, bar the improved soul f...ehm Eradication Chaos Bolt, might be hella fun. Lot of micromanagement and some healthy RNG, useful to hide behind a wall of excuses in case of poor performances/screw ups.

Or i totally missed the eventual prio for a 2 target cleave.

[Grimmaydie]

LOLOLOLOL R.I.P. Improved Backdraft and the faster Chaos Bolt PvP talents. What have you done Blizz?

[Baconeggcheese]

LOLOLOLOL R.I.P. Improved Backdraft and the faster Chaos Bolt PvP talents. What have you done Blizz?

Gave us a spell that increases spell crit chance by 100% for 7 seconds and restores 2 shards, made fel fissure attach to CB and reduce healing received by 50%, gave us a 5 second long reflect all spells ability, made infernal a 1 minute CD 2 second aoe stun + dmg.

lololololol wow blizz gave us better options.

[Grimmaydie]

Gave us a spell that increases spell crit chance by 100% for 7 seconds and restores 2 shards, made fel fissure attach to CB and reduce healing received by 50%, gave us a 5 second long reflect all spells ability, made infernal a 1 minute CD 2 second aoe stun + dmg.

lololololol wow blizz gave us better options.

If you can't cast Chaos Bolts, then why would the dmg matter? Even if it would do %500000 spellpower dmg, you still wouldn't be able to land 1 CB when a Rogue and a Feral is on you.

When we had those cast time reduce talents, we could have 0,8-1,0 secs cast time CB. It's kinda juicy.

What Blizz did is, when you were able to cast 2 Chaos Bolts with 1 sec cast time each, they gave us an active buff, that buffs CB by %100 and CB has 2 secs cast time. I prefer the 1st one.