[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

yeah, it should only be the first sets of firebolts from the imps that isnt affected by DE, with more haste it should even be possible to completely negate that loss, well in theory atleast.

[Duckz0rs]

Now that you mention it, does their cast time scale with our haste?

[Deleted]

im fairly sure that all our pets scale with our stats, how much they scale i dont know.

[Jessicka]

im fairly sure that all our pets scale with our stats, how much they scale i dont know.

They scale 100% with them all, including Haste shortening cast times and increasing Fel Energy regeneration. The problem with Aff and Destro with Mastery is simply that they don't cast spells to which the Mastery applies.

[Duckz0rs]

im fairly sure that all our pets scale with our stats, how much they scale i dont know.

Asking about semantics here, but just to be perfectly clear: pets in that statement includes Guardians I take it?

[ryudaraku]

Asking about semantics here, but just to be perfectly clear: pets in that statement includes Guardians I take it?

Yes, if applicable to the mastery.

A good example of this is The Unholy DK Summon Gargoyle. Previous to 5.2 it only dealt Nature damage, in 5.2 they changed the damage of it's attack to Plague, which is Shadow/Nature. When this change was made Summon Gargoyle went from "Wet Noodle" to "HOLY GOD" levels of strength because it's attack became subject to The Unholy Death Knight mastery, which increases shadow damage.

[Deleted]

Asking about semantics here, but just to be perfectly clear: pets in that statement includes Guardians I take it?

what ^ said.

[Deleted]

Well they get all the crit/haste we have and damage should be based on our spellpower. Mastery they only get when we DE them, but that should be near all the time.

[wooters]

should be interesting in live how our choice of gear pans out, when going for a demonbolt spec...as the bolt gains nothing from mastery, but mastery still is important for pet dmg. if the build stay this way there will difficult choices to make..thats for sure

[Deleted]

should be interesting in live how our choice of gear pans out, when going for a demonbolt spec...as the bolt gains nothing from mastery, but mastery still is important for pet dmg. if the build stay this way there will difficult choices to make..thats for sure

id imagine that demo would want a somewhat balanced setup but with stacking mastery and then fairly even crit and haste.

[Gaidax]

Actually I think Haste will be a premium Demo stat.

[Walterion]

Haste would be really good for any talent choice in this spec. Mastery for those based on stronger hitting minions and Crit for Demonbolt (IMO).


Any idea where would be the haste breakpoint for Demonology, if there is one?

[Deleted]

Actually I think Haste will be a premium Demo stat.

yeah, that makes sense atleast for legion, due to all the crit traits our artifact has, like dreadstalkers getting a +15% chance to crit, imps getting a +35% chance to crit and shadowbolt/demonbolt getting a +15% chance to crit(you'll prolly want every rune for your artifact that can increase your SB/DB crit chance to a max of +30% crit which should put your crit chance for SB/DB at around 50-60%), so i can see a possible decline in value for crit when you get those traits but i only see the crit value drop after you get all those crit traits, b4 that you prolly do want a balanced setup, so that you can be good at every talent setup and not potentially great at 1 and crappy at the rest. ofc this all depends on what kind of gear we can get.

[Kirroth]

Actually I think Haste will be a premium Demo stat.

Quite likely. Legion Demo doesn't have anything that procs off crits, while Haste is the only stat that increases Soul Shard generation rates. So it's probably going to outpace Crit by a good bit. The real question is Haste vs Mastery, and that's going to come down to fiddly demon mechanics and theorycrafting that I don't think has happened yet.

For example, it's a given that Fel Imps benefit from Haste in some manner. The Devs wouldn't allow a dead stat for the spec like that, and DemEmp's Haste buff wouldn't exist if it didn't. The question is how they benefit. Does enough Haste mean they squeeze another Fel Firebolt into their duration? Because that would mean the return of our old friend, Haste Breakpoints. Somewhat fuzzy breakpoints, because reaction time and latency means DemEmp's application point can shift, but breakpoints all the same.

[bio347]

Presumably all temporary demon summons will eventually gain extra attacks in their duration from haste (imps, dreadstalkers, darkglare, infernal/DG). With the magnitude of DE's haste, though, the question becomes if you're going to be able to meaningfully affect that through gear.

[Deleted]

the real question is if we can even reach a haste breakpoint to affect our pets, since DE gives a straight 56% haste buff to the pets, we'd need to know how our pets scale with haste, if their gain like 50% of our haste and they need 20ish% pr extra firebolt then we'd need to have 40ish% haste for them to get that extra firebolt off and that might only be possible in endgame gear, i dont think its something we really need to worry about until we atleast reach the 2nd tier of raiding gear.

[Walterion]

the real question is if we can even reach a haste breakpoint to affect our pets, since DE gives a straight 56% haste buff to the pets, we'd need to know how our pets scale with haste, if their gain like 50% of our haste and they need 20ish% pr extra firebolt then we'd need to have 40ish% haste for them to get that extra firebolt off and that might only be possible in endgame gear, i dont think its something we really need to worry about until we atleast reach the 2nd tier of raiding gear.

Depends really on which relics you would want to focus on for maximum damage, either toss 3 to Summoner prowless and have a 62 % haste buff, or 3 to Infernal furnance and have a 60% damage firebolts.

I think this will not become an issue at the first tier, but when new relics are implemented that give either 2+ to a trait or ones that give 1+/1+ to different traits, that might become something to consider, along side with higher secondary stats on gear.

[Deleted]

Could also be, haste is multiplicative just like BL is for us now. And we are already double dipping in haste as cast timers/GCD for HoG/Dreadstalkers gets reduced aswell.
Our direct damage spells (SB/DB, Implosion, artifact active + Proc) don't benefit from mastery and we need to apply DE to our pets to get mastery benefit.

This could all lead to Haste being our dominate stat, but it's probably going to be mastery. Haste for affliction and Crit for destro.

[Deleted]

too soon to tell really, we can make educated guesses as to which stat will be our best one, and im sure that with the changes that are bound to happen and with tuning passes it might end up being crit lol.

[Kirroth]

Our direct damage spells (SB/DB, Implosion, artifact active + Proc) don't benefit from mastery and we need to apply DE to our pets to get mastery benefit.

They don't benefit directly, but you can't say there's zero benefit. Haste means more SB casts and more frequent Doom ticks, which means more Soul Shards, which means more Wild Imps, which means DE hits more targets and multiplies the power of your Mastery. More Wild Imps also means stronger TK's Consumption and Implosion.

Between Haste and Mastery, likely one will get the top spot but not to the point of stacking it to the exclusion of the other. There's synergistic effects between Mastery buffing your demons and Haste getting you more demons with more attacks in their duration, so we might end up in one of those situations where you're looking to hit breakpoints or ratios in your Haste to Mastery levels. Crit will be third, and poor tank-stat Vers will be fourth.