1. #2301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirroth View Post
    They don't benefit directly, but you can't say there's zero benefit. Haste means more SB casts and more frequent Doom ticks, which means more Soul Shards, which means more Wild Imps, which means DE hits more targets and multiplies the power of your Mastery. More Wild Imps also means stronger TK's Consumption and Implosion.

    Between Haste and Mastery, likely one will get the top spot but not to the point of stacking it to the exclusion of the other. There's synergistic effects between Mastery buffing your demons and Haste getting you more demons with more attacks in their duration, so we might end up in one of those situations where you're looking to hit breakpoints or ratios in your Haste to Mastery levels. Crit will be third, and poor tank-stat Vers will be fourth.
    plus those extra attacks from pets will also result in faster stacks of the stolen power trait which in turn will increase your avg dmg of DB, the synergy between mastery and haste for demo shouldnt be underestimated, i think the problem comes when your DB/SB reaches 1 sec cast time, which should be possible in BiS gear.

  2. #2302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirroth View Post
    They don't benefit directly, but you can't say there's zero benefit. Haste means more SB casts and more frequent Doom ticks, which means more Soul Shards, which means more Wild Imps, which means DE hits more targets and multiplies the power of your Mastery. More Wild Imps also means stronger TK's Consumption and Implosion.

    Between Haste and Mastery, likely one will get the top spot but not to the point of stacking it to the exclusion of the other. There's synergistic effects between Mastery buffing your demons and Haste getting you more demons with more attacks in their duration, so we might end up in one of those situations where you're looking to hit breakpoints or ratios in your Haste to Mastery levels. Crit will be third, and poor tank-stat Vers will be fourth.
    Yes, direct damage spells have 0 benefit from mastery. That is very easy to see.

  3. #2303
    Do pets get partial hits/ticks at the end of their duration like DoTs do?

  4. #2304
    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlysaurusrex View Post
    Do pets get partial hits/ticks at the end of their duration like DoTs do?
    very likely not, however the variables attached to how much haste a pet is going to have may be to wild to really matter in a real world scenario. As so far as haste breakpoints go.

  5. #2305
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryudaraku View Post
    very likely not, however the variables attached to how much haste a pet is going to have may be to wild to really matter in a real world scenario. As so far as haste breakpoints go.
    That is in before you get someone figure out the magic value and everyone and their mothers will start dancing around it because it's 300 DPS increase.

  6. #2306
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That is in before you get someone figure out the magic value and everyone and their mothers will start dancing around it because it's 300 DPS increase.
    *shrug*

    not sure that is a quantifiable number. In a pure patchwork where the tank stands still sure but if a boss moves just enough you screw up those breakpoints because the imp/hounds need to step closer to do the next bite or spell cast.

  7. #2307
    Quote Originally Posted by ryudaraku View Post
    not sure that is a quantifiable number. In a pure patchwork where the tank stands still sure but if a boss moves just enough you screw up those breakpoints because the imp/hounds need to step closer to do the next bite or spell cast.
    I suspect there will be breakpoint numbers, they just won't be precise targets. Movement, minor delays in applying DemEmp due to latency and reaction time, there's lots of things that are going to make Actual Play results less efficient than Patchwerk Sims. So my money is on having general targets you have a reason to overshoot. Like, "Past 15% Haste your Wild Imps will start getting a additional Fel Firebolt cast, but you still want more Haste so you don't lose the extra cast if you're half a second slow casting DemEmp."

  8. #2308
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    Keep in mind, the biggest reason that MoP breakpoints were a thing is because it actually lowered the amount of times you had to cast something in a fight, so the value of haste could actually dip since you weren't actually gaining extra casts due to having to refresh more often. Beholder, Dreadstalkers, and Wild Imps will all have slight variance on when they gain their extra attacks due to the differences in how they do damage, how they spawn, and how fast after summoning you can apply Demonic Empowerment. Even if there is a point where a breakpoint appears to be relevant in a sim, I doubt it would actually be relevant in actual play.

    There is also no reforging anymore, meaning in most situations you can't actually gear around a breakpoint anyways.

  9. #2309
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Well lyl... if they keep reducing Shadow Bolt and Demonbolt damage, we ought just go ahead and add shard generation to autoattack and not bother with those any longer.

  10. #2310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Well lyl... if they keep reducing Shadow Bolt and Demonbolt damage, we ought just go ahead and add shard generation to autoattack and not bother with those any longer.
    well, it sorta makes sense to nerf demonbolt with the dmg potential and trait support it has, after all i could potentially gain +30% crit from traits alone, if you then add 20% crit which according to what ive read from the devs, should be fairly easy, and you'll sit at 50% crit, meaning we'll get a lot of benefit from stolen power as it essentially would have 50% to do quadruple dmg, and a filler that will prolly do around 150k+ on average and could reach as much as 400k+ in 1 hit, which is still a hell of a lot for a filler spell, and if im not mistaken thats more than chaos bolt but i dont like these nerfs either.
    Last edited by mmoca748dddcc2; 2016-05-06 at 07:55 AM.

  11. #2311
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    well, it sorta makes sense to nerf demonbolt with the dmg potential and trait support it has, after all i could potentially gain +30% crit from traits alone, if you then add 20% crit which according to what ive read from the devs, should be fairly easy, and you'll sit at 50% crit, meaning we'll get a lot of benefit from stolen power as it essentially would have 50% to do quadruple dmg, and a filler that will prolly do around 150k+ on average and could reach as much as 300k+ in 1 hit, which is still a hell of a lot for a filler spell but i dont like these nerfs either.
    it 'could' do heavy dmg, that's the thing though! while the base dmg just keeps going down.
    made by Shyama

  12. #2312
    Less Shadow Bolt damage means more damage from pets and summons. I'm okay with that. I mean, it's like the weak attacks other classes use to build Combo Points or Chi or Holy Power. If your builder is strong it means your spenders are weak, and weak spenders aren't much fun. Demonbolt is there if you want a less-weak builder. Despite the name and graphic being the same, it's nothing at all like the mega nuke of Warlords.

    If you want big nukes and a relatively powerful filler spell, Destro is just a spec change away.

  13. #2313
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    uhm, unless ive missed something but in what way is it more dmg from pets and summons? yes pets/summons will do a higher percent of overall dmg but that is bcoz of reduced overall shadowbolt/demonbolt dmg and not bcoz your pets/summons are actually doing more dmg than before especially after they also nerfed demo mastery by 10% but like i said i might have missed something.
    Last edited by mmoca748dddcc2; 2016-05-06 at 09:16 AM.

  14. #2314
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    uhm, unless ive missed something but in what way is it more dmg from pets and summons? yes pets/summons will do a higher percent of overall dmg but that is bcoz of reduced overall shadowbolt/demonbolt dmg and not bcoz your pets/summons are actually doing more dmg than before especially after they also nerfed demo mastery by 10% but like i said i might have missed something.
    Dunno if this is your first alpha / beta / tuning.

    They work out damage ratios first, and then tweak where they want the spec to end up. So after they figure out what % of your dmg they want each individual spell to be in situations, they adjust overall accordingly as needed.

    Which means if something is less of our overall damage something else will be more and how we play will be determined around that.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  15. #2315
    Patches and tuning are going to be rough to figure out for demonology, being that we can rarely see what the damage of pets and guardians are without testing.

  16. #2316
    The doom artifact passives combo'd with the doom legendary are making doom hit like a truck, highest tick I've managed to see was 1.3mill. This is with the 110 pvp premades.

  17. #2317
    they should really decrease dooms dmg cycle. the base of 20 sec makes it as we all know irrelevant in "most" aoe fights. and they then ofc scale our damage for a potential that usually will not be relevant. its an interesting..but ultimately bad design for us imho

  18. #2318
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooters View Post
    they should really decrease dooms dmg cycle. the base of 20 sec makes it as we all know irrelevant in "most" aoe fights. and they then ofc scale our damage for a potential that usually will not be relevant. its an interesting..but ultimately bad design for us imho
    Would you take half duration, half damage, double the recasts? I don't think so.

    Not everything should be perfect for all the situations.

  19. #2319
    I would take the damage as is.. and they could then nerf something else to compensate for it, if need be

    they could also modify the hand of doom talent a bit, reduce the tick with it for a few seconds in addition to what it already does. that way..the talent would be even more useable for both aoe and single target situations. then place the % of power trip to 100 or somewhere in between and adjust soul harvest to an instant spell. just an example though.. of what can be done if they want to increase viability of talents
    Last edited by wooters; 2016-05-07 at 10:39 AM.

  20. #2320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Dunno if this is your first alpha / beta / tuning.

    They work out damage ratios first, and then tweak where they want the spec to end up. So after they figure out what % of your dmg they want each individual spell to be in situations, they adjust overall accordingly as needed.

    Which means if something is less of our overall damage something else will be more and how we play will be determined around that.
    that might be how they do things during alphas/betas but you know, sometimes if it walks like a duck, kvacks like a duck, then its prolly a duck, i believe in what i can see and right now i see a nerf to our filler spells and no change in pet dmg.

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