[Legion] Discipline Priest Discussion

[Deleted]

I was in LFR and tested some talents for attonement heal and only absorb/direct heals. in the 3 LFR runs i always went oom really quick. i don´t play disc perfectly, but at the rate i went oom was astounding. i hope blizz reduces the mana cost of some spells , or i need do get better at the mana management .

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fzT1tWX7HgbvMaZV#fight=3"
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1Hy4raG8Rn9Q2kJb"

Diffrence in healing between Shadowmend and Clarity of wills is so small that clarity of wills is barely worth casting let alone sacrificing star or Halo.

900% sp vs 800% + artifact traits +being an attonement and it cost less mana as well :P

Disc is kinda suppost to go oom if you arent using the core mechanic of Atonement.

[artame]

i went CoW because i wanted to heal mostly via abosorbs. tommorow i will test it with shadowmend and halo instead of CoW.

[Ryeshot]

What are you guys finding is the sweet-spot for atonements active at once? Through the multiple lfrs I have done I have found 4-5 active when damage is going out and perma ones on the tanks is ideal (at least for me). This way I have a decent amount of applications and can still do damage in order to heal those atoned.

i went CoW because i wanted to heal mostly via abosorbs. tommorow i will test it with shadowmend and halo instead of CoW.

Shadowmend destroys our mana as fast as schism. Ideally you should be applying atones through PWS and plea. Let others healers in a raid top off people with their nukes that cost very little mana. Go for the Halo though, I'm not sure if it has DR when it hits x allies, but it benefits from atonement too so if you have atones when large damage goes out, you can quickly top a lot of people.

[artame]

Shadowmend destroys our mana as fast as schism. Ideally you should be applying atones through PWS and plea. Let others healers in a raid top off people with their nukes that cost very little mana. Go for the Halo though, I'm not sure if it has DR when it hits x allies, but it benefits from atonement too so if you have atones when large damage goes out, you can quickly top a lot of people.

I know that, but blizz gave us the tools to heal via absorbs/ non atonement spells and i wanted to see if it can be competitive to the atonement healing style in a raid environement.
Halo hits many targets , but only one target accounts for the atonement heal.

[Gorsameth]

I know that, but blizz gave us the tools to heal via absorbs/ non atonement spells and i wanted to see if it can be competitive to the atonement healing style in a raid environement.
Halo hits many targets , but only one target accounts for the atonement heal.

Disc has non atonement heals because we need to be able to heal 5 man content as the only healer.
Absorb focused healing is dead by design (see why Disc was changed for Legion).

[Totaltotemic]

I know that, but blizz gave us the tools to heal via absorbs/ non atonement spells and i wanted to see if it can be competitive to the atonement healing style in a raid environement.
Halo hits many targets , but only one target accounts for the atonement heal.

You will also go OOM doing that as well. Why are you wasting your time intentionally playing poorly (no, that isn't playing other "styles", it's just playing badly) and then complaining that the spec doesn't work when you do so?

[Genzen Han]

I don't think he's complaining so much as reporting back, and it's not a waste of time to investigate alternative methods of play to see if they work or how much better/worse they might be than the conventional way of playing - it's helpful to know how less-used talents and spells work (or don't work) so we can understand why they're not optimal, and see if there are any times or situations where they might have value etc. That's one of the uses of being in testing - you test stuff.

[Totaltotemic]

I don't think he's complaining so much as reporting back, and it's not a waste of time to investigate alternative methods of play to see if they work or how much better/worse they might be than the conventional way of playing - it's helpful to know how less-used talents and spells work (or don't work) so we can understand why they're not optimal, and see if there are any times or situations where they might have value etc. That's one of the uses of being in testing - you test stuff.

It's a waste of time if you already know they are worse and know exactly why they are worse, which we do unless you haven't been paying attention. Have you ever heard the phrase "reinventing the wheel"?

[fallenangel-succ]

Dude, he's playing a video game on his time, let him do whatever he wants.
You were wrong on disc already in this thread, being directly contradicted by the devs, so have some modesty before lecturing others (this is in reference to disc's viability in 5 mans).

[Gorsameth]

Dude, he's playing a video game on his time, let him do whatever he wants.
You were wrong on disc already in this thread, being directly contradicted by the devs, so have some modesty before lecturing others (this is in reference to disc's viability in 5 mans).

We don't care much for what the vision of the developers is, we care about what the facts tell us.
Vision and reality often say very different things.

[Totaltotemic]

I'm not even sure what that rambling is talking about. Disc is fine in 5 mans and no one from Blizzard ever said they weren't supposed to be. Whether anyone said otherwise or not, that has no bearing on the fact that validating known quantities is a waste of time unless you have reason to believe it has changed. I assure you, nobody in the Resto Druid community would be so full of themselves as to suggest that healing solely through Healing Touch is some kind of novel idea that has to be tested for validity. I'm a little confused as to why that's an idea that deserves defending here.

[PosPosPos]

Dude, he's playing a video game on his time, let him do whatever he wants.
You were wrong on disc already in this thread, being directly contradicted by the devs, so have some modesty before lecturing others (this is in reference to disc's viability in 5 mans).

"We feel that absorbs are too problematic" - *uncaps T90*

All that you need to know about the reliability of developer design and vision.

[Helelos]

Blizz has never seemed to know what to do with disc. I can hear Benny Hill music playing as the disc devs try to balance every playstyle of the spec.

Why is it that this is the only healing spec suffering from an identity crisis?

[Krbl]

What you call an identity crisis is actually blizzard seizing an opportunity.

Priest has two heal specs, which means one heal spec being broken doesn't break the class.

The devs are trying to do something different with disc, for quite some time now.

I enjoyed it in MoP, I enjoyed it in WoD, and I'm curious how it is going to turn out in Legion.

[Franarok]

Complexity is not a bad thing, but I thinks it should come with rewards. I mean, play a class more complex than any other to heal less, dont have the best raid CDs and do insignificant dps is not fair. The problem is the atonement system, it breaks your play, making you stoping to dps, even if the main is the mana cost of keep it up on a good number of raid members: plea becomes a black hole of mana if you had several atonement. And the are heals cost an insane amount of mana and heal very few.

But I was the first who said that if discipline heals as much as other healers, then will be op because the damage (minimal, but is better than nothing). But if heals less than other heals, no one will want them on raids because people need heals, letting dps for dps xD.

That is why i think blizz crashed into a huge problem and they have nooooooo idea about what to do with disc. Legion is almost here and still are doing important changes to the class.



Think they wanted something like an hybrid. Or maybe some kind of support. As a support is true it should heal less than healers, but it should give some buffs to the raid, like something to raise attack, or raise defense, raise mana regen.... Something that makes you want at least one even if not heals as much as the healers. The sample of the mind control talent with no cd could be a good sample, giving some extra damage to the raid as well the chance of select interesting humanoids to become the priest "pet". Think was a very very very interesting spell. But they put a 3min cd on it, so meh, missed the chance of give something usefull to disc.

[Deleted]

The more I look around the more I think that disc is fine. As in it's just fiiiiiine. Sure it might not be the epic mlg clutch performer for cutting edge progression (or maybe it is, who knows what it could do in the right hands with a favorable group setup) but it's not like it's broken and can't do anything.

Pick it if you like it, and just like any other serious progression player be ready to switch to holy if you're expected to be a dedicated healer (you should be doing that anyways) and switch to shadow if you were playing as a substitute for the hell of it.

Simultaneously I understand the frustration of those who were envisioning a true pillar of healing like all the other healing specs with a new cool flavor of healing through damage but whatever you (and myself) ran with in your heads, might not turn out to be what's actually going to happen live. It might exceed or fall well short of our expectations.

The practical approach is to decide whether it's worth giving it a shot or if not. If you're in progression that may come as a sacrifice or a pleasant surprise. Frankly I feel the spec is not in a bad spot though, it gets the job done, in its own way.

[Deleted]

Complexity is not a bad thing, but I thinks it should come with rewards. I mean, play a class more complex than any other to heal less, dont have the best raid CDs and do insignificant dps is not fair. The problem is the atonement system, it breaks your play, making you stoping to dps, even if the main is the mana cost of keep it up on a good number of raid members: plea becomes a black hole of mana if you had several atonement. And the are heals cost an insane amount of mana and heal very few.

But I was the first who said that if discipline heals as much as other healers, then will be op because the damage (minimal, but is better than nothing). But if heals less than other heals, no one will want them on raids because people need heals, letting dps for dps xD.

That is why i think blizz crashed into a huge problem and they have nooooooo idea about what to do with disc. Legion is almost here and still are doing important changes to the class.



Think they wanted something like an hybrid. Or maybe some kind of support. As a support is true it should heal less than healers, but it should give some buffs to the raid, like something to raise attack, or raise defense, raise mana regen.... Something that makes you want at least one even if not heals as much as the healers. The sample of the mind control talent with no cd could be a good sample, giving some extra damage to the raid as well the chance of select interesting humanoids to become the priest "pet". Think was a very very very interesting spell. But they put a 3min cd on it, so meh, missed the chance of give something usefull to disc.

Their dps is a lot more than "insighnificant". Obviously you can't have a disc competing with a real dps, but currently they're competing with the worst tuned dps classes (ret), and usually far above tanks.
Alongside with their good damage they also bring competitive healing. I agree most of the time they'll be lowest on the healing meter, but a good disc won't be very far behind, and if the fight fits disc he could even jump up a few spots.

The problem with disc right now is that the skillcap has been increased to 1 of the highest within the game, if not the highest.
I can only imagine every single cutting edge mythic group wanting a disc priest. Not only do the bring unique spells in terms of a few absorbs and barrier, but they also bring a lot more damage than any other healer would be able to bring.

[fallenangel-succ]

Disc is so fine in 5 mans that:

"Yeah I don't see a reason to even bother with Disc in Mythic+ serious runs (ones where you're not blazing through the dungeon) anymore."

"Without the extra damage from a perma-pet, Disc brings very little damage when you're doing things hard enough to warrant Grace and Shadow Mend, at which point you might as well just play Holy because even Holy can still fit in damage on bosses to shorten them up and Disc's trash damage was really far behind on aoe anyway."

I didn't say anything about vision, so not sure why you're referring to that.

[PosPosPos]

Disc is so fine in 5 mans that:

"Yeah I don't see a reason to even bother with Disc in Mythic+ serious runs (ones where you're not blazing through the dungeon) anymore."

"Without the extra damage from a perma-pet, Disc brings very little damage when you're doing things hard enough to warrant Grace and Shadow Mend, at which point you might as well just play Holy because even Holy can still fit in damage on bosses to shorten them up and Disc's trash damage was really far behind on aoe anyway."

I didn't say anything about vision, so not sure why you're referring to that.

You can start by not being as clear as mud, since you are obviously upset we didn't interpret your words correctly(I doubt so, but will just assume good faith on this part).

Such as explaining what exactly the devs said in what context that directly contradicts what TT said, so we won't have this asinine back-and-forth argument with us trying to guess what your context actually is, and you trying to be obtuse arguing semantics and technicalities because you deliberately and willfully left out important snippets out of your assertions.

But hey, I acknowledge that if I was just trying to be Mary-Quite-Contrary without actual substance, I would do exactly the same as you did and just throw smokescreens around.

P.S. Is quoting posts properly really that difficult for you?

[fallenangel-succ]

I recalled him clamoring the viability of disc in 5 mans when others doubted it, as well as the overall healing output of disc (which is what I was referring to, when it was later clarified in the Q&A session that disc was intentionally tuned lower). Perhaps I got confused with someone else though.
If you want asinine, go with saying someone is wasting time doing something a video game.
But it's ok, for someone that comes from a LoL pug this place isn't toxic at all.