Raiding

[land]

Any FF static/raiders here? I'm curious about how bored are you guys from having only 4 savage bosses... I thought Void Ark was going to be another raid tier with savage but just learn that is isn't, its just a hard-mode ish LFR... Was pretty pump'd for getting into raiding on FF but is AS all there is to it right now? Isn't this tier out for a while now? Did SE say anything about another raid tier soon?

Side discussion - maybe worthy of a new thread, dunno - how do you guys feel with the idea of having only 4 bosses in a raid tier? In wow you usually get at least 7 bosses (i.e. Highmaul) or other bigger places like Hellfire with 13 bosses... Doesn't it get a bit annoying having only 4 bosses to work with an entire week (say u raid 3 times a week)?

PS: I'm kinda bummed about it, not trying to criticize the game/raiders, looking for some perspective from a static raider in FF.

Thanks!

[Faroth]

Same pattern as 2.0

Bahamut's Coil at release with 4 turns
Labyrinth of the Ancients 24 man
Bahamut's Coil
Syrcus Tower 24 man
Bahamut's Coil
World fo Darkness

In WoW you get 7 bosses to access and then months of nothing.

In FFXIV you get 4 bosses, other content (typically) in 3 months, another 4 bosses in 3 months after that.

That's not including Extreme versions of primals. Don't forget Knights of the Round hard is in this patch as well, just as Ultima Weapon hard was in 2.0.

It's also worth noting that without PTR to give free practice for a few months, raids are going blind on patch days. As a result the number of raids that complete all of Alex Savage by the time the next wing is out could be reasonable. Bahamut's Coil wasn't seeing a lot of clears in advance of the next turn.

Just depends if you want nothing but raid content, but even so, it seems like it's tuned tightly enough that progression raiding is a suitable challenge to keep the majority of players busy through the off-raid patch cycles.

[Wrecktangle]

Any FF static/raiders here? I'm curious about how bored are you guys from having only 4 savage bosses... I thought Void Ark was going to be another raid tier with savage but just learn that is isn't, its just a hard-mode ish LFR... Was pretty pump'd for getting into raiding on FF but is AS all there is to it right now? Isn't this tier out for a while now? Did SE say anything about another raid tier soon?

Side discussion - maybe worthy of a new thread, dunno - how do you guys feel with the idea of having only 4 bosses in a raid tier? In wow you usually get at least 7 bosses (i.e. Highmaul) or other bigger places like Hellfire with 13 bosses... Doesn't it get a bit annoying having only 4 bosses to work with an entire week (say u raid 3 times a week)?

As a raider (assuming mythic quality player), you get 4-6 bosses every 6-7 months. You have your extreme primal's:
1) Bismark
2) Ravana
3) KotR

Which are typically almost as difficult as your entry level wow bosses on Mythic. Once you learn the pattern, it's an easy kill. The timers aren't tight, and the mechanics aren't difficult, there's just a lot of personal responsibility.

You then have Savage. Savage 1-2 are tough, but very similar in that if you can meet the dps checks (via skill or gear whichever comes first), the mechanics are not difficult to learn.

Savage 3 is known as the static killer. It is in my honest opinion more difficult than mythic Blackhand was and my static couldn't even finish it on our limited schedule. It has a ton of obscure mechanics, strict dps checks, and almost every mechanic results in a wipe if failed. It is also a 10+ minute long fight from a progression standpoint.

The major downside to only 4 bosses is a very tight progression curve. You have 1 and 2 that take a week or two at most, then you have 3 that takes 6-8 weeks for good groups, then 4 which takes about the same length, arguably a little less.

With WoW mythic, I think we killed 4 or 5/10 in Mythic BRF week one (9hrs 3d/wk). Without the extra bosses you really suffer from a weaker gear curve. Also, in WoW some classes might get good upgrades off easier bosses making the later bosses easier, you don't really get this in FF14. The strongest gear is almost always gated at the end or off the end encounter, so if your dps are failing the check, it's unlikely to get better.

Hope this helps.

[Deleted]

It's also worth noting that without PTR to give free practice for a few months, raids are going blind on patch days. As a result the number of raids that complete all of Alex Savage by the time the next wing is out could be reasonable. Bahamut's Coil wasn't seeing a lot of clears in advance of the next turn.

While I mostly agree, one thing you forgot to mention is that bosses are tuned with a very specific item level in mind. And given the only way to get gear (before 3.1) was to either farm savage until the entire group had the ilvl, or you farm weekly Esoterics until you do. Both are inherently pretty bad design. You can't just brute force bosses like in wow, you are forced to wait behind a gear wall. I don't know what it was like pre 3.0, but in this patch, this is how it is, and it's kinda annoying.

[Deleted]

Any FF static/raiders here? I'm curious about how bored are you guys from having only 4 savage bosses... I thought Void Ark was going to be another raid tier with savage but just learn that is isn't, its just a hard-mode ish LFR... Was pretty pump'd for getting into raiding on FF but is AS all there is to it right now? Isn't this tier out for a while now? Did SE say anything about another raid tier soon?

Side discussion - maybe worthy of a new thread, dunno - how do you guys feel with the idea of having only 4 bosses in a raid tier? In wow you usually get at least 7 bosses (i.e. Highmaul) or other bigger places like Hellfire with 13 bosses... Doesn't it get a bit annoying having only 4 bosses to work with an entire week (say u raid 3 times a week)?

PS: I'm kinda bummed about it, not trying to criticize the game/raiders, looking for some perspective from a static raider in FF.

Thanks!

Depends really. Savage is hard as hell so it takes a while to down those 4 bosses XD

[Madruga]

Any FF static/raiders here? I'm curious about how bored are you guys from having only 4 savage bosses... I thought Void Ark was going to be another raid tier with savage but just learn that is isn't, its just a hard-mode ish LFR... Was pretty pump'd for getting into raiding on FF but is AS all there is to it right now? Isn't this tier out for a while now? Did SE say anything about another raid tier soon?

Side discussion - maybe worthy of a new thread, dunno - how do you guys feel with the idea of having only 4 bosses in a raid tier? In wow you usually get at least 7 bosses (i.e. Highmaul) or other bigger places like Hellfire with 13 bosses... Doesn't it get a bit annoying having only 4 bosses to work with an entire week (say u raid 3 times a week)?

PS: I'm kinda bummed about it, not trying to criticize the game/raiders, looking for some perspective from a static raider in FF.

Thanks!

You have to keep in mind that FFXIV usually launches raiding content faster than WoW. In ARR, we had 4-5 new bosses every 3 months. WoW gives 12 bosses at once, but then keeps players waiting for months upon months, sometimes up to a year - always the case when it is the last patch. So, both WoW and FFXIV give around the same number of bosses per time.

But, note that I used the term USUALLY. Right now is actually the first time SE failed to deliver new content in 3 months. Instead of waiting only 3 moths, we had a new patch in 6 months. The dev team had to take a vacation - deserved, mind you, they worked very hard to make a piece of gem worthy of competing for number 1.

But I consider it a big flaw of strategy. They failed to deliver new content fast, which was one of the top selling points for new players, just when FFXIV was in the highlights, and when WoW was crashing hard. It was the golden opportunity to take even more players from WoW, maybe even take that number 1 spot.

I belive they will return to launching new content faster now, that they are all rested and all, but I really feel sorry for the wasted oportunity.

[Deleted]

You have to keep in mind that FFXIV usually launches raiding content faster than WoW. In ARR, we had 4-5 new bosses every 3 months. WoW gives 12 bosses at once, but then keeps players waiting for months upon months, sometimes up to a year - always the case when it is the last patch. So, both WoW and FFXIV give around the same number of bosses per time.

But, note that I used the term USUALLY. Right now is actually the first time SE failed to deliver new content in 3 months. Instead of waiting only 3 moths, we had a new patch in 6 months. The dev team had to take a vacation - deserved, mind you, they worked very hard to make a piece of gem worthy of competing for number 1.

But I consider it a big flaw of strategy. They failed to deliver new content fast, which was one of the top selling points for new players, just when FFXIV was in the highlights, and when WoW was crashing hard. It was the golden opportunity to take even more players from WoW, maybe even take that number 1 spot.

I belive they will return to launching new content faster now, that they are all rested and all, but I really feel sorry for the wasted oportunity.

Patch took 5 months not 6 but yeah they said the wanted a vacation and it was slower than usual.
On their last interview though they said that they are getting back to releasing patches with a 3 and a half month gap in between so we re good to go from now on I believe

[Faroth]

While I mostly agree, one thing you forgot to mention is that bosses are tuned with a very specific item level in mind. And given the only way to get gear (before 3.1) was to either farm savage until the entire group had the ilvl, or you farm weekly Esoterics until you do. Both are inherently pretty bad design. You can't just brute force bosses like in wow, you are forced to wait behind a gear wall. I don't know what it was like pre 3.0, but in this patch, this is how it is, and it's kinda annoying.

I'd say mechanics tend to be the biggest key with the exception of some DPS checks. Not being able to just brute force it tends to mean they expect you to perfectly execute the fight.

But they slowly implement catch ups to help with brute forcing so raids can push forward. Diadem offering ilvl 210 gear, upgrading eso to 210 gear, removing Alex normal if you want to get the i190 instead, or adding echo to fights are all there for that extra push.

- - - Updated - - -

Patch took 5 months not 6 but yeah they said the wanted a vacation and it was slower than usual.
On their last interview though they said that they are getting back to releasing patches with a 3 and a half month gap in between so we re good to go from now on I believe

To add to this:
It was also August 27 to December 14 for 2.0 to 2.1 as well. So just about 4 months for the first patch of 2.0 cycle.

June 23 to November 11 for 3.0 to 3.1 in contrast. So just about 5 months for the first patch of the 3.0 cycle and now back on the schedule we've gotten used to?

I'd say they're doing alright.

[Lathais]

Any FF static/raiders here? I'm curious about how bored are you guys from having only 4 savage bosses... I thought Void Ark was going to be another raid tier with savage but just learn that is isn't, its just a hard-mode ish LFR... Was pretty pump'd for getting into raiding on FF but is AS all there is to it right now? Isn't this tier out for a while now? Did SE say anything about another raid tier soon?

Side discussion - maybe worthy of a new thread, dunno - how do you guys feel with the idea of having only 4 bosses in a raid tier? In wow you usually get at least 7 bosses (i.e. Highmaul) or other bigger places like Hellfire with 13 bosses... Doesn't it get a bit annoying having only 4 bosses to work with an entire week (say u raid 3 times a week)?

PS: I'm kinda bummed about it, not trying to criticize the game/raiders, looking for some perspective from a static raider in FF.

Thanks!

I'd say that's the largest difference right there. Why raid 3 nights a week? FFXIV is much more casual. Casual has nothing to with difficulty and everything to do with time though. Especially in Savage, you get the difficulty, but don't need 3 nights a week to do it. It was one of my biggest complaints about WoW and Rift raiding to be honest. Most guilds raided 2-3 nights a week. Personally, I only have time to play 2-3 nights a week anymore and I want to do other things in a game besides raiding. So I actually like the fact there is less to do.

[Tazila]

While it sucks that there isn't more to raid, those who have already pushed over and farmed Savage A4 are in for a break. Most people are still progressing, and well, those people are probably perfectly fine there isn't another tier, they still have time.

Imo, content is there, unless you've already cleared it and farmed it to where it gives you nothing anymore. Until then though, it's still content to clear and doesn't really need an extension until more people have cleared and farmed it.

[Wrecktangle]

While it sucks that there isn't more to raid, those who have already pushed over and farmed Savage A4 are in for a break. Most people are still progressing, and well, those people are probably perfectly fine there isn't another tier, they still have time.

Imo, content is there, unless you've already cleared it and farmed it to where it gives you nothing anymore. Until then though, it's still content to clear and doesn't really need an extension until more people have cleared and farmed it.

While your statement isn't inaccurate I can tell you that wiping on an encounter for 2 months straight isn't fun. If it's the end tier boss, it's to be expected a little bit, but a3s? No thank you. Get gear from other area? Nope. Bang your head against a different wing boss to give yourself a break? Nope.

In WoW, if you tried Blast Furnace after clearing Ore and Gruul you were in for an A3S styled wall. However, you could just as easily go get more gear off Darmac/Hanz&Franz, etc.

Options. Without options, things can get stale. That was my experience in savage. YMMV.

[Tazila]

True, I'm just more so curious if he's still currently progressing or what exactly his progression terms are to wether he's hit the wall or hasn't even touched it.

But that's absolutely understandable.

If hasn't been doing savage progression, and he didn't know void ark was LFR, he may not have known that he can upgrade his gear and his friends gear for a better chance of those prog kills!

The one good thing about void ark is that it lets you upgrade your pieces to 210, one piece per week, which then puts you in the "okay we have enough gear, but do we have the skill for it".

The only thing you can't upgrade to 210 is your weapon, as that still require AS4 books.

You can also grind out hunt marks for the upgraded materials. 500 clan Marks for ONE Clan Mark Book. The Mhachi Farthing is automatically looted after your first clear of the week from Void Ark.

Illuminati Gobtwine (upgrades main items)- 1 Mhachi Farthing OR 6 Clan Mark Logs
Illuminati Gobcoat - (upgrades accessories items) 1- Mhachi Farthing or 4 Clan Mark Logs



So it is possible now to have full 210 upgraded eso gear now (minus 210 weapon), without killing AS3 or AS4.

If anything, it gives those struggling a better chance, but they also didn't just leave them in the dust without a sliver of help.

[Deleted]

I enjoyed the exploratory mission raid they've added. It's not super hardcore but it's quite unique and fun (for now at least).

[blackpink]

While your statement isn't inaccurate I can tell you that wiping on an encounter for 2 months straight isn't fun. If it's the end tier boss, it's to be expected a little bit, but a3s? No thank you. Get gear from other area? Nope. Bang your head against a different wing boss to give yourself a break? Nope.

In WoW, if you tried Blast Furnace after clearing Ore and Gruul you were in for an A3S styled wall. However, you could just as easily go get more gear off Darmac/Hanz&Franz, etc.

Options. Without options, things can get stale. That was my experience in savage. YMMV.

Eh might just be me but I only ever had 1 or 2 bosses in wow that I truly enjoyed progressing on (per raid), so having different options didn't mean much, progress on boring shit repeat. That being said, because of that, for me there's no difference in that aspect from ff14 to wow.

Also from what I hear, a4s is just a gear check, especially with the cheese strat. For the most part if you get a3s you will get a4s soon after (assuming you're in good gear) so you can just think of a3s as the real fight. Alot like how Spine of deathwing was the real progression and madness was a cakewalk (comparatively).

[Wrecktangle]

Eh might just be me but I only ever had 1 or 2 bosses in wow that I truly enjoyed progressing on (per raid), so having different options didn't mean much, progress on boring shit repeat. That being said, because of that, for me there's no difference in that aspect from ff14 to wow.

Also from what I hear, a4s is just a gear check, especially with the cheese strat. For the most part if you get a3s you will get a4s soon after (assuming you're in good gear) so you can just think of a3s as the real fight. Alot like how Spine of deathwing was the real progression and madness was a cakewalk (comparatively).

Fair enough I acknowledge your experience, even if it differs from mine. My personal favorite progression boss had to be Professor Putricide. I just loved that last phase.

A4s while being easier than A3s, still requires time to down. You don't down it in one night after clearing A3s, and it's not because of the gear check either. You may be able to cheese the Pentacles, but getting there isn't free. It may take you less time than A3S, but it is by no means a cakewalk.

Also, fuck Spine.