Backstab: what's the issue?

[Feali]

Did you bother to read the entire thread. In 99% of cases where there is no "behind" the boss, the boss has been adjusted to allow you to backstab from anywhere on his hitbox, or has had the area where backstab is allowed to work from, increased to allow backstabs from the side.

Nah.. it only works because they updated Backstab. This has nothing to do with how the boss is designed.

[Deleted]

Are you saying that a rogue couldnt choose to stand behind the boss and ignore mechanics to continue backstabbing? Cause implying that you can, but they cant is pretty stupid, to say the least.

Thanks for calling me stupid, whilst demonstrating you clearly don't understand what i'm saying in the first place, keep it civil.

What i'm saying is whatever you choose to do as a caster your spells/abilities will always hit for 100% of their damage. If a rogue chooses not to stand behind the boss he will lose damage, so when you take that choice away from them how is that fair??

[Archon14]

10/10 troll man, well played.

I appreciate it. Being a little more serious, there is a chance that you will have more options for a rotation in the talent tree. Maybe something that changes Backstab, maybe something that will replace it if you wish so.

[Feali]

I appreciate it. Being a little more serious, there is a chance that you will have more options for a rotation in the talent tree. Maybe something that changes Backstab, maybe something that will replace it if you wish so.

Why do we need to have a talent for something all other classes get for free?

[Surfd]

Thanks for calling me stupid, whilst demonstrating you clearly don't understand what i'm saying in the first place, keep it civil.

What i'm saying is whatever you choose to do as a caster your spells/abilities will always hit for 100% of their damage. If a rogue chooses not to stand behind the boss he will lose damage, so when you take that choice away from them how is that fair??

You somehow missed my point entirely. You said that you have a choice (as a warlock) to ignore mecchaniccs and stand in bad to continue doing damage. I simply pointed out that rogues have the exact same option. A rogue can chose to ignore mechanics, stand behind the boss (or wherever backstab can hit the boss) and continue doing damage. Exactly like you. When you try to say "I can do A, but rogue can't do A, even though rogues can do A if they want to", I have every right to call your comment stupid.

[Archon14]

Why do we need to have a talent for something all other classes get for free?

Let me try to extend an olive branch here. Let's say you have a choice in the talent tree that replaces Backstab, but deals 10% more dmg. So you would pick that against the boss you can't stay behind of and get a slight dmg boost, but you wouldn't get a diffferent option that improves some other ability.

[Feali]

Let me try to extend an olive branch here. Let's say you have a choice in the talent tree that replaces Backstab, but deals 10% more dmg. So you would pick that against the boss you can't stay behind of and get a slight dmg boost, but you wouldn't get a diffferent option that improves some other ability.

Again. Wasted talent that would never get picked if the restriction didn't exist. There's a reason they made 2 glyphs for Monks baseline.

[Deleted]

You somehow missed my point entirely. You said that you have a choice (as a warlock) to ignore mecchaniccs and stand in bad to continue doing damage. I simply pointed out that rogues have the exact same option. A rogue can chose to ignore mechanics, stand behind the boss (or wherever backstab can hit the boss) and continue doing damage. Exactly like you. When you try to say "I can do A, but rogue can't do A, even though rogues can do A if they want to", I have every right to call your comment stupid.

No you missed the point, i said rogues do have the choice to stand in front but when you MAKE them stand in front because it is impossible for them to get behind the boss due to mechanics it is no longer a choice.

Melee take a loss in damage via parries in this situation but rogues take the parry loss AND the backstab loss, we are not balanced around that loss.

Done being civil, if you can't get your head around this simple concept just GTFO of the thread as you are clearly thicker than a whales foreskin.

[Archon14]

But isn't the point of a sub rogue to stab people in the back? You'd think with all these class changes, they would remove Backstab if that was really the problem with the class.

And what happened to the good, old "I'm not having fun this way, so I'll change spec/class to compensate"?

[maddnesskhaz]

But isn't the point of a sub rogue to stab people in the back? You'd think with all these class changes, they would remove Backstab if that was really the problem with the class.

Why is the generic response always "but class flavour!" with no logical reasoning as to why this QoL change that was applied to everyone else, continues to not be applied to Sub's main non-stealth CP generator.

[Archon14]

Why is the generic response always "but class flavour!"

Well part of the reason of these class changes is flavour. But Backstab wasn't a change, it was always there. So better question is, why are you still playing sub rogue?

[Deleted]

Just a reminder for a few people in this thread: following proper positioning on a boss strat is basicly THE most important thing.

Maybe not in normal mode / heroic mode, because the mechanics get quickly overmatched by itemlvl and you can go full "yolo".
Mythic progress is different to your typical random pug. Being forced to use hemo instead of backstab for almost entire phases is just crazy annoying <- for me, thats actually the reason they need to remove the positional requirement. Its just annoying af. And we are the only class with such outdated design.

Just image how crazy people were crying if mind blast would only be possible from the front, because OF COURSE you have to "see your target in the eyes" to "blast their mind".

PS1: Yeah of course you CAN attack gorefiend from the side. It just really fucks with raid cooldowns and group healing in feast phase. Again, in normal / heroic its not an issue, you cant die anyway besides hardcore fails.

PS2: Dont compare positional requirement for your attacks with "having to move and not being able to cast", melees sometimes need to run accross the whole room to switch targets ect, you dont.

[maddnesskhaz]

Well part of the reason of these class changes is flavour. But Backstab wasn't a change, it was always there. So better question is, why are you still playing sub rogue?

It's by far the strongest spec for end-game raiding at this point.

[Feali]

And what happened to the good, old "I'm not having fun this way, so I'll change spec/class to compensate"?

That's like saying "You don't like that you have to crit two times in a row for Pyroblast to be instant? Better roll Arcane."

[Archon14]

It's by far the strongest spec for end-game raiding at this point.

Well if that's the case, you have no idea if it will remain so in Legion. I guess what I'm trying to say is to not lose your nerves over this and be patient.

That's like saying "You don't like that you have to crit two times in a row for Pyroblast to be instant? Better roll Arcane."

Point of a game is to have fun. I think asking the game to turn around you instead of you turning around the game to compensate is ridiculous.

[maddnesskhaz]

Well if that's the case, you have no idea if it will remain so in Legion. I guess what I'm trying to say is to not lose your nerves over this and be patient.

Or they could just fix backstab once and for all instead of making it worse and leaving us to 'hope' that all 3 specs are viable in end-game raiding so we can choose whatever spec plays the nicest as per our personal preference.

[Deleted]

Well if that's the case, you have no idea if it will remain so in Legion. I guess what I'm trying to say is to not lose your nerves over this and be patient.

Normally i would agree with the we need to wait and chill philosophy right now, but not on this mate, its been a sore point for Rogues for a very long time now, we have been nothing but patient.

[Deleted]

Well if that's the case, you have no idea if it will remain so in Legion. I guess what I'm trying to say is to not lose your nerves over this and be patient.

The point is: they should have changed that long ago, people are complaining like forever.

Back in the day when you could really only backstab from the back, it was a pain in the ass in PVP when you were slowed and if your opponent actually used their brain, you were pretty much fucked sometimes

[Feali]

Point of a game is to have fun. I think asking the game to turn around you instead of you turning around the game to compensate is ridiculous.

I don't know how restrictions are fun but okay.. whatever floats your boat.

[ImpTaimer]

"Must be <insert position> target" is a stupid mechanic to FORCE an ability to use. You are already rewarded for attacking from behind by avoiding mechanics (unless it's a "dragon").

Backstab itself was always stupid. Always. At no point was it ever acceptable because you were expected to attack from the back anyway to avoid parry/block.

Giving people a damage bonus for attacking from the back just doesn't work in a game with no player collisions. Instead, you should just get resource return.

Do people really think having their little player clipping seizure is skill?