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  1. #1

    [Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

    With the onset of Legion information upon us I intend to be providing similar resources for Enhancement as I have in WoD, currently, provided the community interest is still there. Currently, I have an overview document available for what we know so far, a VoD from my initial reaction stream, and a more balanced video done with Bay from FinalBossTV taking a more in-depth look at how the game may/may not play with what we have here. This will be updated with future information and resources as time goes on and more Legion information becomes available; a general feedback/in-depth look at how the Legion Class Overview may interact us in a written form is likely what is next.
    Links provided below:

    RECOMMENDED ARTIFACT PATH



    Legion Pre-Patch Cheat Sheet

    Pre-Patch Breakdown


    Legion WeakAuras

    Example of them in action here:



    Enhancement Legion So Far Doc

    Enhancement Spreadsheet Calculator

    Class Blog Analysis

    Crash Course for Beta Enhancement (Alpha wrap-up)


    Second Pass on Legion Talent Changes


    Updated Mechanics & Suggestions


    3/3 - Artifact Tree & Enhancement's place in endgame


    2/3 - Thoughts on the new Talent Tree's first pass


    1/3 - Initial Gameplay Impressions


    Early Animation Showcase

    Doomhammer Artifact Intro Scenario

    Doomhammer Artifact Tree First Look

    Datamined Talent Impressions

    Close Look at Legion Blog

    FinalBossTV First Look Video

    Initial Reactions/Impressions
    Last edited by wordup; 2016-08-29 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Update

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Leivah's Avatar
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  3. #3
    Just started listening but holyshit at the Shaman response in that poll... literally, the amount of people voting Shaman the worst is more than all the other classes combined.

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Just started listening but holyshit at the Shaman response in that poll... literally, the amount of people voting Shaman the worst is more than all the other classes combined.
    As someone who played hunter and monk this xpac, but wants to go enhance shaman... can you (or anyone else) shed some light on why the current enh shaman community hates the changes so much? Is there a reason other than a major change to the gameplay?

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Murderdoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Just started listening but holyshit at the Shaman response in that poll... literally, the amount of people voting Shaman the worst is more than all the other classes combined.
    I wouldnt take the poll to seriously. Shockingly, Reddit was actually negative about something, but the Shaman community are often the loudest despite our small number which creates a little bias. Call this anecdotal, but in my experience, Shaman are typically very highly represented in online communities as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by zurm View Post
    As someone who played hunter and monk this xpac, but wants to go enhance shaman... can you (or anyone else) shed some light on why the current enh shaman community hates the changes so much? Is there a reason other than a major change to the gameplay?
    Shaman are a stubborn bunch. Enhance especially, a lot of Enhance players LOVE their spec and wouldnt have stuck it out for so long if they didnt absolutely LOVE it.

    With that a lot of people become attached. Couple that with no real solid details (we got a whole bunch of HEY NEW RESOURCES and then, nothing to put it into perspective) a lot of people are frightened.

  7. #7
    Good work wordup! Good to hear some constructive feedback about the changes without all the forum rage.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by zurm View Post
    As someone who played hunter and monk this xpac, but wants to go enhance shaman... can you (or anyone else) shed some light on why the current enh shaman community hates the changes so much? Is there a reason other than a major change to the gameplay?
    I think its a combination of the change in gameplay (that a lot of folks enjoy) and the preview doing a really poor job of communicating why we should be excited about the changes. It doesn't seem like there's anything intriguing or unique about Maelstrom, its just a basic rage bar. Likewise for the ability list, Ive seen a few people happy about Sundering but I can't tell you why I would want a line cast ability that potentially knocks enemies away from me and out of group AE. The QoL changes to totems are neat but we already have a totem that loosens up on the elemental restriction, no one ever takes it because the totem effects just arent that useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    I wouldnt take the poll to seriously. Shockingly, Reddit was actually negative about something, but the Shaman community are often the loudest despite our small number which creates a little bias. Call this anecdotal, but in my experience, Shaman are typically very highly represented in online communities as well.
    Of course I wouldn't say that reddit is representative of the entire wow fanbase, but its an interesting result nonetheless. Thats 14k people, 1.7k are Shaman, and yet over 7k of them voted that Shaman had the worst preview by an overwhelming margin. So, within that community, it doesnt seem like its just the Shaman that are disappointed. Id like to see something like that from other wow communities.

  9. #9
    Still not a huge fan of the changes that are being proposed for Enhance and I'm still trying to keep an open mind about it all.

    To me Maelstrom is no problem for the simple reason we can take MSW as it is now and convert it to values to equal 100 on a bar, (MSW "charge" is 25 Malestrom, stack of 5=100). That part is easy to take and with that we can now look at the new abilities like Sunder and see it working due to the fact we now have a wider range of values we can use to spend the resource on.

    The reason I am not a fan of this new direction is because we are now going from CD management with Procs to react to, to a very controlled or seems to be controlled way to play. Must stack MS (will be for the new bar cause I'm lazy) to value of X use filler spender to not cap resource, use SS on CD or proc, spam builder or filler depending, rinse repeat. Now I know many will say we haven't seen the end product of the class and talents could change everything, the thing is we have a working rotation here that seems pretty close to finished for ST damage and MS seems to be what will be needed to power all of our abilities. So depending on the situation the builder could be spammed more then we think. Sundering 60 Maelstrom, Instant, 20 sec cooldown. Same value and nearly the same time as SS, a few more abilities like that and you will be Spamming the builder to use those abilities.
    My opinions on the subject.

  10. #10
    i only hope that our new rage bar will have more than 100 maelstrom capacity ~150-200 and we can talk about changes without geting enraged to often :P


    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  11. #11
    Tweet saying current max is 100 on warcraftdevs. WarcraftDevs/status/666401093618790400 (Sorry, can't link)

  12. #12
    Fluffy Kitten Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    I wouldnt take the poll to seriously. Shockingly, Reddit was actually negative about something, but the Shaman community are often the loudest despite our small number which creates a little bias. Call this anecdotal, but in my experience, Shaman are typically very highly represented in online communities as well.
    It's not just Shaman mains who are being vocal about these concerns; plenty of people who main other classes come together when Shaman are mistreated because they have Shaman alts that they'd love to play again. However, they really dislike how Elemental and Enhancement are always on the back foot when it comes to design. Shaman have been the third (sometimes fourth) least played class since Cataclysm, with the majority of the people playing Restoration.

    We've been largely untouched for the past 10 years, and so we've had to deal with flawed or inconvenient mechanics, especially when compared to some classes who have already had multiple revisions, namely Warlocks. It's not hard to understand why everybody is fed up with what Shamans have to deal with in regards to the reactions and responses when it comes to our design. Shaman players have a knack for creativity and there are plenty of awesome ideas out there but Blizzard tends to add something that we dislike, or change something that we liked to something we dislike instead. I'm not sure whether they have a different view of how our class should play or feel like, but it's certainly unsurprising when I see the community react like this whenever the subject of Shaman design comes up in conversation.

    So I highly doubt 51.2% of the poll results consist solely of Shaman players. Everybody I know - whether they main a Shaman or not - hated the Shaman class preview with some even hating it more than myself. I certainly wouldn't call these results bias at all.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    Tweet saying current max is 100 on warcraftdevs. WarcraftDevs/status/666401093618790400 (Sorry, can't link)
    https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...01093618790400

    thank you werry much for link,
    making us furry warriors suck
    Last edited by kosajk; 2015-11-17 at 08:55 AM.


    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  14. #14
    Updated this with my Article/Analysis video posted up today

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    Updated this with my Article/Analysis video posted up today
    Solid analysis. I do hope we see Fire Nova become a talent if its gone baseline, thats one aspect of this spec Id be the most sad to see go since I really enjoy it compared to any other ae mechanics in the game.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Solid analysis. I do hope we see Fire Nova become a talent if its gone baseline, thats one aspect of this spec Id be the most sad to see go since I really enjoy it compared to any other ae mechanics in the game.
    Yeah I absolutely agree, Fire Nova is a pretty unique tool with such a comprehensive package so to see it disappear completely would be sad. Then again if it's impossible to balance around (which wouldn't surprise me) I can understand the reasoning behind it. Hopefully the talent route is perfect for the spell (I'd assume replacing Crash Lightning) for those big AoE fights.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    Yeah I absolutely agree, Fire Nova is a pretty unique tool with such a comprehensive package so to see it disappear completely would be sad. Then again if it's impossible to balance around (which wouldn't surprise me) I can understand the reasoning behind it. Hopefully the talent route is perfect for the spell (I'd assume replacing Crash Lightning) for those big AoE fights.
    Yep, fingers crossed. The thing that worries me most is that it sounds like FlS is gone entirely from the Enh kit and we dont have anything to spread in its place.

  18. #18
    Obligatory preface about how we just don't have too much information yet.

    The elemental preview specifically says "They manipulate the land itself and summon spirits of earth, fire, and storm to their aid." in their fantasy outline, and ours doesn't mention them at all. Is this evidence that we won't have the Elemental summons? Not definitive, but possibly suggestive. Thoughts?

    In a different vein, some folks are already throwing around generation numbers in pretty specific detail, especially regarding LL/RB/SS acting as melee in terms of generation. This seems rather premature to me. Given how much the spec is changing, should we assume that previous abilities that proc MW stacks will continue to do so? "When you deal damage with a melee weapon, you generate 5 Maelstrom." could just mean white swings, RB, and WF procs for MP generation.

    Pooling of resources has been brought up a lot, with some folks suggesting that the redesign will allow for greater flexibility in this regard. My read on this is that we're looking at very tight resource generation and if SS is tuned powerfully enough to compete with LL, we may not be able to hold the strike and maintain passable output. Does it look to you as if we'll have greater flexibility than EotE currently gives when it comes to bursting priority targets? How tight does the 100 cap constrict our options given the 90 MP we'll need to react fully to a Stormfury proc?

    There are many situations in which a class can be powerful. Burst for single target, AoE, and Cleave. Sustained for single target, AoE, and cleave. Scaling. Ability to make best use of DPS increasing windows like procs and Bloodlust/Heroism. Meaningful mobility (marathons aren't typically designed around) and the damage one can do during it. Target switching. Utility: offensive, defensive, and manipulative. We've got basically no information about nearly all of these, and I think we should be looking through each bit of information we get through these lenses.

    This last bit is primarily directed towards Wordup. If the spec needs to change this much, and I fear that it's likely too far through the pipeline to retain the current mechanical feel as it currently exists, then we're going to need to be very granular in our feedback. Yourself, Purge, and Bay are likely the most visible theorycrafting people for Enhancement Shaman. Hopefully the pathways of communication are reopening now that this stage of the 'reveal' is done, and once Beta goes live you can provide the critical analysis to make sure we don't end up with an overhaul that leads to the bin. If I get Beta access, I'm happy to help in any way that I can. Keep up the good work.
    Last edited by Mantioch; 2015-11-18 at 12:25 PM. Reason: clarity

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post

    There are many situations in which a class can be powerful. Burst for single target, AoE, and Cleave. Sustained for single target, AoE, and cleave. Scaling. Ability to make best use of DPS increasing windows like procs and Bloodlust/Heroism. Meaningful mobility (marathons aren't typically designed around) and the damage one can do during it. Target switching. Utility: offensive, defensive, and manipulative. We've got basically no information about nearly all of these, and I think we should be looking through each bit of information we get through these lenses.
    This is interesting. There have been a few quotes from devs mentioning that they are moving away from giving specific niches to classes. Though they mentioned that classes will still be good at certain things (monk clone cleave and outlaw flurry for example). I'm interpreting this as well have talents to better suit different situations. For example, one tier would have a single target talent, a cleave talent and an AoE talent. Allowing better customization between fights. I'm just looking forward to being more than an AoE machine.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    Obligatory preface about how we just don't have too much information yet.

    The elemental preview specifically says "They manipulate the land itself and summon spirits of earth, fire, and storm to their aid." in their fantasy outline, and ours doesn't mention them at all. Is this evidence that we won't have the Elemental summons? Not definitive, but possibly suggestive. Thoughts?
    I really hope so. Between Ascendance, Feral Spirits, and the Fire elemental I think that Enhancement still has one too many big CDs. The puppies are iconic for the spec, Ascendance is at least mechanically interesting, while the FE is just this fire and forget thing you hit every 5 minutes. Getting rid of it also means that they can give the puppies back their pet bar and make them a bit more involved.

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