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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystrome View Post
    One thing I've not seen anyone mention yet, with the way MS is going to be generated, is weaponspeed. I know that we'll have our artifact for Legion, so a non-issue during that, but we'll have a few weeks (maybe even 2 months) of pre-launch gameplay with our overhaul.

    Would it be possible that we're going to have a fast weapon in our MH and a slow weapon in our OH to generate more MS? Or even fast weapons in both hands? And if fast weapons become viable, what would that mean for us pre- or post-Legion?
    Pre-legion won't particularly matter to anyone that much (outside of your month of stomping around hellfire being OP as shit), slow weapons as oyu do now will do bigger hits, same reason crit is often preferred to haste for melees while levelling.

    Post-legion I'm sure we'll know by then (if we don't just keep artifact system), but given the amount of haste procs we can get, ways to reduce cost, etc. I don't think you'll be sorely dying for maelstrom
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  2. #42
    pre-Legion: who cares? pre-WoD was a time where you could run around with Illidan Blades with some classes.

    Legion: who cares? We have Artifact.

    post-Legion: who cares? Next expansion will change things again.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Im looking at this purely from an objective point of view, for all the reasons I mentioned in the last post there isnt anything inherently wrong with having a 10 min CD that you likely get one use out of per encounter. Whether I have one cd or ten, Im going to use them all in the most strategic manner possible. People who are using their cooldowns purely to pad meters is a social issue, not one that game balance needs to be concerned with.

    Personally, I think that the talent system is at its brightest when youve got 3 objectivity equal talents that allow a player the freedom to shape the gameplay to his preference. Maybe I want one really powerful cooldown that Ill use once a fight, if you want something significantly shorter then youll have feral kin, and for someone that wants something more consistent that fits into the rotation there is should be Earthen Spike. I think thats a good balance to have in that tier and much more interesting than if Ascendance is a 2-3 minute cooldown.
    I haven't actually ever heard from someone who LIKES 10m cooldowns, so this is novel. Feral Kin is also too long, IMO.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    I haven't actually ever heard from someone who LIKES 10m cooldowns, so this is novel. Feral Kin is also too long, IMO.
    Well, I don't like any that have been in WoW thus far and I don't think I'd like it if were a baseline ability. However, as a talent I can definitely see potential in it.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantioch View Post
    I haven't actually ever heard from someone who LIKES 10m cooldowns, so this is novel. Feral Kin is also too long, IMO.
    As a talent it seems pretty cool. Would prefer a shorter duration if anything so ascendance was real burst potential.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  6. #46
    I was thinking many rows would be something like: 3m CD, Rotational CD 20s or less, Passive. Sadly, if Ascendance is as little as a few percent better, it'll be the only option. They got some of our current rows quite well balanced for ST. Echo, EM, and AS are all pretty close together for ST. Echo is better for AoE, and I find it preferable for ST, despite my most recent sims showing AS 1-2% ahead for me in ST situations. If they manage to balance out the talents... Man, it could be a really cool thing to be able to choose your playstyle.

    CDs longer than 3m don't appeal to me, it's one of the reasons I hate the elementals. If that sort of thing strongly appeals to some and fit within the playstyle and fantasy of the spec, and they're balanced well, then I just won't choose (or be forced to choose) the talents that don't appeal to me.

  7. #47
    And likewise passives don't appeal to me. Unless you are playing top 50 world you can run what talents you want, just play better. If someone tells you to use a talent you hate while doing less dps than you, kindly tell them to fuck off and mind their own business as it's clearly causing greater issues than your talent choices.

    Feral Kin is also a 5 minute cooldown, so if 10m doesn't apply to you then it's right there and will likely be comparable in nearly every case (except sub 5min fights - not normal on progress)
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  8. #48
    i would not take that cds, numbers and uptimes to serious at this point of time it will be tweaked alot imo and datamined things dont tend to be totally acurate most of the time
    Last edited by kosajk; 2015-11-25 at 03:33 PM.


    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  9. #49
    Can we get this stickied as I see it being a great resource while we wait for legion.

  10. #50
    Waiting for them to get into the alpha/beta!

  11. #51
    Datamined info points to Feral Spirits being the only cool down before, with ascendance being a talent if you want another.

  12. #52
    I'm not being awkward but what's the issue with enhancement in legion? I've looked over abilities and talents and I really like the way it's panning out, I get that it's very similar to fury warriors but we're getting a filler skill in rockbiter, 2 procs in the form of storm and windfury, raid utility with stampeding roar totem and the buff that enhances 2 people and yourself and if chosen 2 buffs to keep up (Dunno how landslide is going to work so maybe 3) and it looks like it's turning out as a very interactive spec with no downtime, as well as possible HUGE burst from the artifact 30% stormstrike proc.

    I was going to main ret paladin but with how enhancement is looking which is WAY more interesting, at least to me. Elemental hasn't really changed except for fulmination being more reliable and with the artifact, again, being more procs which is, for me at least fun. And lastly resto, no idea yet without the artifact info but some talents look nice 50% tidal waves and bottomless depths is nice.

    But yeah on topic, what's bad about how enhance looks?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by TeeZed View Post
    I'm not being awkward but what's the issue with enhancement in legion? I've looked over abilities and talents and I really like the way it's panning out, I get that it's very similar to fury warriors but we're getting a filler skill in rockbiter, 2 procs in the form of storm and windfury, raid utility with stampeding roar totem and the buff that enhances 2 people and yourself and if chosen 2 buffs to keep up (Dunno how landslide is going to work so maybe 3) and it looks like it's turning out as a very interactive spec with no downtime, as well as possible HUGE burst from the artifact 30% stormstrike proc.

    I was going to main ret paladin but with how enhancement is looking which is WAY more interesting, at least to me. Elemental hasn't really changed except for fulmination being more reliable and with the artifact, again, being more procs which is, for me at least fun. And lastly resto, no idea yet without the artifact info but some talents look nice 50% tidal waves and bottomless depths is nice.

    But yeah on topic, what's bad about how enhance looks?
    You're responding around 3 weeks too late, the negative opinions came from the class blog, far before any of the extra information about talents/artifacts etc. was available to us. People are generally much happier now there is that context available.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    You're responding around 3 weeks too late, the negative opinions came from the class blog, far before any of the extra information about talents/artifacts etc. was available to us. People are generally much happier now there is that context available.
    I wasn't invited to the party but yeah I thought this might of been the case, cheers.

  15. #55
    On the first row of our talent tree is an ability called Windsong, you attack your enemy with nature damage, while speeding up attack speed by 50% for 15 seconds. What I'm wondering is since it states attacks with nature damage, wouldn't it be the talent to pick out of the three there at the moment?

  16. #56
    It doesn't matter. The actual dmg of that skill will be very low. The important part is the atkspeed increase.

    But that's a balancing issue and therefore completely irrelevant right now.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Solid analysis. I do hope we see Fire Nova become a talent if its gone baseline, thats one aspect of this spec Id be the most sad to see go since I really enjoy it compared to any other ae mechanics in the game.
    Talent i guess would be OK, but i FUCKING HATED flameshock > LL > fire nova AOE, has been my most hated aspect of any enhance changes ever, fucking awful.

    I honestly prefered dropping lava totem and using fire nova from that

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Yep, fingers crossed. The thing that worries me most is that it sounds like FlS is gone entirely from the Enh kit and we dont have anything to spread in its place.
    We have flametongue instead, could they have a talent that changes the way something works AND adds a spell? for instance, you get fire nova and flametongue is now applied to enemies?

    Im more than happy to see flameshock gone though, is by far my most hated ability in enhances toolkit, just such an underwhelming and clunky ability, i hate its interaction with our kit and every thing 'grrrrr'

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    Talent i guess would be OK, but i FUCKING HATED flameshock > LL > fire nova AOE, has been my most hated aspect of any enhance changes ever, fucking awful.

    I honestly prefered dropping lava totem and using fire nova from that

    - - - Updated - - -
    I disagree entirely. I very much enjoy how it currently functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    We have flametongue instead, could they have a talent that changes the way something works AND adds a spell? for instance, you get fire nova and flametongue is now applied to enemies?

    Im more than happy to see flameshock gone though, is by far my most hated ability in enhances toolkit, just such an underwhelming and clunky ability, i hate its interaction with our kit and every thing 'grrrrr'
    It doesn't matter, I think we've seen enough to know that Fire Nova style gameplay is definitely dead. Its not in the talents and it seems "fire nova" is now a Feral Spirits ability. Our AE appears to be going the super basic route where you have some weak AE ability that causes some other attacks to cleave. I can live with it, even though I find it really boring.

    I am concerned about the "facing" requirement though. Having our only baseline AE tied to a positional requirement rather than just hitting everything around it like just about every other major AE, could end up frustrating. Isnt that why swipe was changed all those years ago?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekeal View Post
    On the first row of our talent tree is an ability called Windsong, you attack your enemy with nature damage, while speeding up attack speed by 50% for 15 seconds. What I'm wondering is since it states attacks with nature damage, wouldn't it be the talent to pick out of the three there at the moment?
    It dealing nature damage is fairly irrelevant. Before the recent SP->AP switch of Rockbiter, it did the exact same as Rockbiter but instead of generating maelstrom gave you a big attack speed steroid. Windsong generates more Autos ergo more windfuries & means a lot of maelstrom gen + the free damage it's granting through those procs, resonance is just purely a MP gain which isn't doing as much.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    Talent i guess would be OK, but i FUCKING HATED flameshock > LL > fire nova AOE, has been my most hated aspect of any enhance changes ever, fucking awful.

    I honestly prefered dropping lava totem and using fire nova from that
    tbh i really like current FS>LL>FN mechanics
    farming bones on ashran is so much fun with it


    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

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