[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[Nitwit]

The problem is fundamentally having too many Stormbringers with a hard MP limitation means the benefit of getting a proc is diminished, and in effect that means mastery's value goes down further. It was straight up nerfed in scaling and on top of that AS and Landslide were nerfed, so it's already likely behind haste, but if you can't actually use the Stormbringer procs reliably, it's pointless to go mastery.

We have plenty of maelstrom for stormstrike and stormbringer, even without windfury generation.

[Advent]

well the spec feels like hot garbage to play now incomparison to how it was before (both with and without boulderfist talent). they basically killed off several of the talents with our mp nerf, btw can we please get the old WF animation back? it would make it so much easier to see when it procs.

I'm of the camp that has zero problem seeing where my character is amidst the clusterfudge of spells and effects. I always know my character is directly in the center of the screen, so visual noise is a non issue. So I TAKE issue with them removing visual flavor, like Tornado Windfury; Stormblast, etc... Visuals are a lot of what makes playing enhancement feel so visceral and strong, and a lot of that is gone.

[Deleted]

Currently, i don't use lava lash at all cause i don't have Maelstrom to discard. So if Gameplay stays like this, i think it will be a problem.

Don't take Boulderfist if you want faster playstyle.

It's hard to make everyone happy, nearly impossible, but as people said before, Boulderfist have to slow down the rotation, that's why you got CD on it. Before the patch everyone pointed that this talent doesn't fulfil that role. Now it's working as intended.

Secondly, the resource have to be something you manage. You get some and you can spend some on different abilities. Before the patch, you could learn how to play with certain talents (the best ones) in 1 hour and never do mistake in ST. Maelstrom bloat let you use everything everytime. Like with Stormbringer and Tempest, you had to spend only 80 Maelstrom, but you got 30 back only from Stormstrikes. Add autos and WF and for 3 massive strikes you didn't feel any setback.

I can understand however, why people love that spammy playstyle (imo it's right here with rockbiter), it reminds me of some fast paced game, like ninja with furious attacks. I feel like one of them when playing my shammy

[BiggestNoob]

We have plenty of maelstrom for stormstrike and stormbringer, even without windfury generation.

You're playing it wrong or you've got no mastery at all.

Don't take Boulderfist if you want faster playstyle.

That's not really faster, it's just pressing Rockbiter all the time. AFAICT, you end up with more Stormbringer procs this way, meaning the small difference in MP generation is completely overshadowed by the fact that you can't actually spend any of it on anything but Stormstrike.

[Darleth]

Don't take Boulderfist if you want faster playstyle.

There is absolutely no difference in pressing boulderfist every few seconds and pressing rockbiter all the time. That doesn't speed up the rotation, it just changes what button gets pressed more often.
Imo a "faster rotation" - or playstyle - depends on ressource generation and spending those ressources the best you can. Looking at Demon Hunters, they have a simple, yet fast and fun playstyle (imo) because of how their mechanics work (Crit refunding Fury for example).

We have plenty of maelstrom for stormstrike and stormbringer, even without windfury generation.

With more mastery, we wont. With enough proccs during doom winds, we wont. I did playtest it a bit and depending on talents picked, it was either "I got enough to react to procs" or "I dont have enough". We have much more downtime with the current changes than before (which is fine), but standing around waiting for things to either proc, BF gaining a charge or just spamming one button doesn't feel like fun, fast or engaging gameplay imo. With the next build we at least have decent small burst phases with Doom Winds up. I'm more sad about Lava Lash being so underused currently because of all the hardcore pooling we have to do. Hot hands is the only thing that puts Lava Lash in a "decent" spot because of lava lash being free.

[Nitwit]

With more mastery, we wont. With enough proccs during doom winds, we wont.

1. I don't think you entirely appreciate how obscenely low the conversion is now. With no gear (just base mastery), Stormbringer has a 6% proc chance. In order to double the number of Stormbringer procs you generate compared to this base case, you'd need 16,800 mastery rating. By comparison, the level 110 pvp premade has 1,759 mastery rating.

2. Uhh ... yes we very much will. Windfury's going to give maelstrom generation again, and it's impossible to spend the maelstrom Doom Winds will generate when that's the case. If anything they're going to have to nerf Doom Winds or Windfury in some way just to make that maelstrom generation manageable.

[Darleth]

1. I don't think you entirely appreciate how obscenely low the conversion is now. With no gear (just base mastery), Stormbringer has a 6% proc chance. In order to double the number of Stormbringer procs you generate compared to this base case, you'd need 16,800 mastery rating. By comparison, the level 110 pvp premade has 1,759 mastery rating.

2. Uhh ... yes we very much will. Windfury's going to give maelstrom generation again, and it's impossible to spend the maelstrom Doom Winds will generate when that's the case. If anything they're going to have to nerf Doom Winds or Windfury in some way just to make that maelstrom generation manageable.

If you'd read what i've wrote, I know that we get the Windfury maelstrom generation back with the next build. As I've said: as it stands now, its not enough. I'm hoping that the change will help out with that. I actually dont think that we'll have a problem with dumping in the near future actually, considering that during doom winds we'll use Storm Strike more often - that takes into account that we have enough mastery via the early gear. Thats completely my opinion though.

[Nitwit]

You're playing it wrong or you've got no mastery at all.

No, it's pretty simple if you don't mindlessly mash Lava Lash.

If you'd read what i've wrote, I know that we get the Windfury maelstrom generation back with the next build

Then your comment about not being able to use Stormbringer procs during Doom Winds makes no sense.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

the artifact weapon bonuses doesnt work in pvp, arena and rbgs so they cant build us around that, we will be so resource starved in there that we will be unable to choose certain talents and not having access to those abilities could cripple us in our viability

[BiggestNoob]

No, it's pretty simple if you don't mindlessly mash Lava Lash.

Nope, you're still doing it wrong. This still happens quite regularly with every single viable talent setup unless you have VERY little mastery.



So after a lot more dummy hitting with different talents, Hailstorm > AS, it's a ~10-15% difference. I've also found that Hot Hand is between 2-5% better than Boulderfist, and Boulderfist/Tempest/Hailstorm is by far the most MP starved spec (obviously) but still manages to just nearly compete with Hot Hand/Tempest/Hailstorm. With a bit more MP freedom it'll probably pull ahead, especially if you could actually spend all the Stormbringer procs. It's also the most hectic with Hot Hand procs and maintaining Frostbrand and using Flametongue as a filler (because no MP cost).

And the spec plays much better with haste (picked up the haste buffs in the class hall to try this out). So I'd probably stack haste > vers~crit~mastery? I'd have to do numbers, but I don't know how the other 3 relate to one another. Even though mastery seems to make Hailstorm significantly better, you end up not being able to spend every Stormbringer proc, so a haste heavy build is probably going to do more DPS, and if not at least it feels a lot smoother.

MW working with WF will definitely help when you're banking no BFs or Maelstrom into DW after baiting a Stormbringer proc to force WFx3 and hope for another proc. But in the other case where you're not really hurting for MP because you're not getting procs, it's just going to mean LLs to avoid over-capping. It'll just make the MP profile a bit more spiky but it's not going to fix the majority of the time so you're not going to have MP to do much of anything outside of wolves/DW. I'm confident that's not going to fix the spec because the problem we have is that we don't have spare MP outside of CDs to use other talents (even if they were tuned appropriately and worth using per or for the opportunity cost at all) or cast a HS if we need, and this won't help. At 9% chance for WF I get 30 hits in ~210 seconds, which works out to well below 1 MP/s of passive MP generation outside of DW and that's really not going to be noticeable at all.

All in all, next patch will be an improvement, but won't fix the feel of the spec, nor will it make other talents relevant or be anywhere close to a fix-all.

[garonne]

before this patch we were swimming in maelstorm. youre supposed to care about your resource so this change is good. the windfury is the perfect place to put maelstorm.i dont think you realize how often it procs.

as far as stats go it'll probably be haste > mastery>= crit > vers

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

before this patch we were swimming in maelstorm. youre supposed to care about your resource so this change is good. the windfury is the perfect place to put maelstorm.i dont think you realize how often it procs.

as far as stats go it'll probably be haste > mastery>= crit > vers

its not good because we wont be able to utilize certain talents to their full benefit and turning enhance into a slow class doesnt feel right, we are moving closer to the rng shamans we used to be and thats not fun. its what most enhance shamans wanted gone in the first place

[Worgar]

before this patch we were swimming in maelstorm. youre supposed to care about your resource so this change is good. the windfury is the perfect place to put maelstorm.i dont think you realize how often it procs.

as far as stats go it'll probably be haste > mastery>= crit > vers

I must have shit for luck then, because I don't seem to get shit for WF procs.

[Deleted]

I wonder how they throw in such a big change so close to the release. I mean, what did they do for an entire year that they have to change so much now?
And it's not that enh was bad (not taking about numbers). Apparently people simply enjoyed the feel. Why destroy that now?

[mkultra55]

before this patch we were swimming in maelstorm. youre supposed to care about your resource so this change is good. the windfury is the perfect place to put maelstorm.i dont think you realize how often it procs.

as far as stats go it'll probably be haste > mastery>= crit > vers

The philosophy is sound but I'll trust the more theorycrafting focused players who argue that it went too far. If the Math works out that after a certain point Mastery starts losing value because we can't use all our Stormbringer procs then something's broken and needs to be fixed.

I think it's good that this was done with plenty of time to make adjustments now that tuning has started. Hopefully we'll get some new tweaks.

[-aiko-]

It doesn't take much to see that they went too far tbh. Even going Rockbiter spam you don't have enough maelstrom for talents like Overcharge to fit into your main rotation. They have a lot of tuning to do.

[Mojodisu]

It doesn't take much to see that they went too far tbh. Even going Rockbiter spam you don't have enough maelstrom for talents like Overcharge to fit into your main rotation. They have a lot of tuning to do.

I have to say the same, we starve and starve and starve. Not fun at all.

[miffy23]

It doesn't take much to see that they went too far tbh. Even going Rockbiter spam you don't have enough maelstrom for talents like Overcharge to fit into your main rotation. They have a lot of tuning to do.

Is this after the announced outstanding changes went live? Because they did say that windfury was not generating MS now, but will be. Etc.

[-aiko-]

Is this after the announced outstanding changes went live? Because they did say that windfury was not generating MS now, but will be. Etc.

It remains to be seen. I'm optimistic but the mastery nerf was pretty nasty. At the very least it will help significantly with the Doom Winds synergy.

[Jotaux]

I honestly don't see a difference in maelstrom starvation with boulderfist or rockbiter. Using rockbiter at least I have something to press I guess.