[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[wordup]

For (the many) that have asked regarding Artifact traits and the path, I've put together an imagine that should represent it. There's a direct link to the image here in case it's scalled down too much in the MMO-C formatting.

[Hivey]

Well it has benefit of a much greater range, which will help in some situations.

[chairmanmao]

Is Crash Lightning still used in single target? What about with Crashing Storm?

[-aiko-]

How does an Overcharge hit compare with a SS hit? Is LB close enough in damage that in future tiers with more mastery it might hit harder? Bearing in mind it ignores armour too.

I just ran a ~10 minute sim and they were strikingly similar, both Lightning Bolt and Stormstrike contributing 15% damage. However, this of course without Tempest and Tempest is just too good on a fully leveled artifact.

Whoops, forgot to include SS offhand hits as well...derp. Either way, Lightning Bolt was behind Stormstrike (and was the #3 contributor to my dps).

[wordup]

I just ran a ~10 minute sim and they were strikingly similar, both Lightning Bolt and Stormstrike contributing 15% damage. However, this of course without Tempest and Tempest is just too good on a fully leveled artifact.

Whoops, forgot to include SS offhand hits as well...derp. Either way, Lightning Bolt was behind Stormstrike (and was the #3 contributor to my dps).

Skada will show that, but the main issue is less were they show up in the meters relative to each other, and more the opportunity cost. Tempest aside, Overcharge costs 3x the Maelstrom of a SB proc, doesn't proc extra effects of Stormflurry (which build into Unleash Doom) so it becomes difficult to extrapolate. I think Overcharge may have a place early, but with certain gear levels in particular in regard to Mastery, you won't take it anymore. However, now the GCD situation is much better than it was, it at least has a place and a functional purpose.

[LTCrystallite]

Couldn't they just lower the Overcharge cost but keep the damage? I mean, it does put LB on a cooldown so I don't think that's too much to ask to make it max 30 or 40.

The "fantasy/flavor" of it is to throw Lightning Bolt back into your rotation, but it's not very appealing when all that delicious Maelstrom could be spent on more interesting things. If they lowered the cost, at least that way the idea remains but isn't compromising all of those tasty stormstrikes. There are also other priorities and talent choices that cost Maelstrom that need upkeep (hailstorm, earthen spike, crash lightning, etc). I definitely don't see OC staying the way it is.

[wordup]

Couldn't they just lower the cost but keep the damage? I mean, it does put LB on a cooldown so I don't think that's too much to ask to make it max 30 or 40.

There is no reason to buff it.

[LTCrystallite]

There is no reason to buff it.

Why is that though? I understand the max cap is 150 now but that goes away if you're properly throwing your priorities in, and if AoE is involved, Overcharge is kind of pointless isn't it?

[wordup]

Why is that though? I understand the max cap is 150 now but that goes away if you're properly throwing your priorities in, and if AoE is involved, Overcharge is kind of pointless isn't it?

I refer back to the post last page here, it explains why Overcharge has a reason to exist. If it fares poorly in AoE, so be it, but buffing it past where it exists now seems pointless other than to create a "you pick this in AoE all the time, you pick this otherwise".

[Nitwit]

Why is that though? I understand the max cap is 150 now but that goes away if you're properly throwing your priorities in, and if AoE is involved, Overcharge is kind of pointless isn't it?

None of the talents on that row offer AOE that's worth writing home about. Empowered Stormlash also doesn't scale with target number, and Tempest just increases the number of AOE crash lightning procs you get (not a big part of your overall damage).

[BiggestNoob]

Did some testing earlier that day. Gotta say the maelstrom gain feels quite good now. I personally thought it won't be that great, but I was wrong.

They increased the generation by double what the math said they would just by making MW work on WF, while reducing the number of WF hits, and the bulk of it (~70%) is consistent baseline generation via Rockbiter/BF, which is exactly what they needed to buff. If the generators weren't buffed it wouldn't have fixed anything because WF wasn't reliable.

I'm sure someone is going to cry because BF is still mostly GCD locked now, because that's the natural side effect of baseline MP generation being at a reasonable level.

We're still going to get nerfed: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done. Hopefully this time it isn't a stupid nerf like reducing MP generation (which isn't effective given these breakdowns). 260k on a ST fight with 835 ilvl, even discounting the fact that I still have enchants on my weapons, is higher than most other specs around that kill time.

[Deleted]

First, I would like to thank everyone here and most of all Wordup, for all the great info that is coming here every day (I'm still in no beta club so this and PTR are the best I can get)

Second, I would like to ask a few questions:
1) How often do you have free GCD when playing with Boulderfist on lvl 110? I prefer the spammy style of Rockbitter and when testing on PTR, with many Boulderfist setups it often happened to me that I pressed BF and then just waited for another charge to go up (mostly with Fury of Air). I don't mind having a free GCD here and there but this is too much for me. I know that PTR is imbalanced so I would like to know how this works on 110.

2) Which fight types/scenarios favour which generator? Is it just my feeling or are RB builds better on AoE? Since on start our main content will be dungeons where, honestly, speed on trash often matters more than on bosses, I would like to know

3) Purely subjective - what differemce in theoretical dps is ol for you to sacrifice to go for your favorite playstyle? I mean, if BF and RB builds are just 1-2 percent from each other, I will surely go RB...but 3 or 5 percent...that may be too much

4) The most important one - where can I do sims? Ask Mr Robot is painfully slow and often incorrect, is Wordup's spreadsheet being updated to the latest build?

Thanks a lot for answers!

[Pantsless]

So let me get this strait. We get 5 talent tiers that affect our damage. Out of those five, four have basically only one choice : AS, Landslide, Tempest and Crashing Storm, the rest being either much weaker, highly situational or gear dependable (as in not my choice but Ask Mr. Robot s choice). Out of those four, two are passive agi or haste buffs. Im sorry, but this is one of the worst talent trees in the game. And it has nothing to do with number tuning, it has to do with the lack of choice and the lack of interesting game mechanisms.

Also, talents like Overcharge and Earthen Spike which i dont think developers themselves understand what they where trying to do with. Overcharge was initially a way to bring back some of the old LB focused playstile from WoD, or at least that was what blizz stated in the blue posts. Now its is meant as an alternative to LL? but has to compete with two back to back SS wit 50 % damage increase and 50% less MP ? And Earthen Spike, is this supposed to be a rotational ability with a bonus extra buff attached to it, like Elemental Blast, or is it an ability that we have to plan around to get the most out of the 10% damage buff?

I refer back to the post last page here, it explains why Overcharge has a reason to exist. If it fares poorly in AoE, so be it, but buffing it past where it exists now seems pointless other than to create a "you pick this in AoE all the time, you pick this otherwise".

What that post explains is the place of LB in our rotation if you choose Overcharge. It has nothing to do with the reason Overcharge exists. Why Blizzard made this talent, and chose to put in the same tier as Tempest is up for debate. I remember the original version was meant to make LB an alternative to SS and bring back some of the WoD playstile, this is according to a blue post. For example BF is meant as a CD alternative to the GCD lockes RB. In its current form Overcharge is an alternative to nothing a talent that looks more like a failed experiment.

[Khrux]

We're still going to get nerfed: logs link(can't link yet).

Those logs

The second Shaman's skill priority?! Looks like hes playing enhance for the first time and is still topping meters, dear god we're doomed and destined for nerfs. Was this your guild or a PUG? Even the Spriests are miles apart with what looks like bad dot uptime for the 2nd one.

[Hivey]

How is the buffed Earthen Spike looking now?

As someone who isn't planning on speccing Hailstorm, I suspect I will have the MS to fit another active into my rotation.

[Darleth]

4) The most important one - where can I do sims? Ask Mr Robot is painfully slow and often incorrect, is Wordup's spreadsheet being updated to the latest build?

Thanks a lot for answers!

Wordup has a good tool to kinda sim stuff currently. Gonna link it here: Wordup's Enhncement Legion Calc
Just copy it to your own google drive and insert your choices. He probably has the best google docs and puts a ton of time into them to make them work and look good.

Edit: I just saw that you're not in beta... I have no clue of other sources to sim... I have no clue if wordups doc works for pre-legion.

They increased the generation by double what the math said they would just by making MW work on WF, while reducing the number of WF hits, and the bulk of it (~70%) is consistent baseline generation via Rockbiter/BF, which is exactly what they needed to buff. If the generators weren't buffed it wouldn't have fixed anything because WF wasn't reliable.

I'm sure someone is going to cry because BF is still mostly GCD locked now, because that's the natural side effect of baseline MP generation being at a reasonable level.

Im fine with it now. In my case it was more about "how the hell would WF fix that issue, if the proc chance is so low and kind of unreliable?" Them increasing the Rockbiter and BF gain again was a good move, even if we've lost 1 additional attack on WF for that, but well, it hits harder now. Im happy with it. Still gotta have to manage the ressource is a good thing and even LL does a bit more now than it did last patch, if we're really sometimes unlucky with proccs and are pooling too much of MP. My other problem was using RB too much.

On the topic of doom vortex:

I think they should just make it work like frozen orb for mages does: its fast until it hits a target and then slows down. That would fix the problem with it not sometimes reaching the target and dealing no damage when used on range. Maybe even make it so that the "timer" for disappearing starts AFTER the first hit, since it doesn't last that long to begin with - and if the target (pvp scenario for example) is really far away or runs away from it, just make it despawn after X seconds. I think that would fix some of the problems it has.

[Deleted]

Edit: I just saw that you're not in beta... I have no clue of other sources to sim... I have no clue if wordups doc works for pre-legion.

Thanks a lot, I am not in beta but I wanted to sim for lvl 110, so the calc is great It just makes me sad seeing Boulderfist being 15% ahead of any other build - how about my first question, how often do you have a free GCD on 110 with boulderfist?

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

pretty often you will find yourself with nothing else to do

[Deleted]

pretty often you will find yourself with nothing else to do

Well if this is the truth then I really hope that they will bring Rockbiter build to the similar level as BF Anyway, the issue I see is that in Legion, there is not much to do in the free GCDs we get from using Boulderfist - Purge or CC totem aside, it is just time spent looking at the boss. On the other hand, I see the benefits on fights with adds or movement, the ability to "hold on" the MS generator without losing dmg is good...

[Hekili]

Well if this is the truth then I really hope that they will bring Rockbiter build to the similar level as BF

No, Boulderfist competes with the other T15 talents, not with Rockbiter alone.

Anyway, the issue I see is that in Legion, there is not much to do in the free GCDs we get from using Boulderfist - Purge or CC totem aside, it is just time spent looking at the boss.

Healing Surge, refresh Flametongue early, purge, Hex, Lightning Surge Totem, Wind Rush/Feral Lunge to other new target, avoid fight mechanics...

On the other hand, I see the benefits on fights with adds or movement, the ability to "hold on" the MS generator without losing dmg is good...

That's the only issue I have with Boulderfist at this point. With even a little bit of haste, it recharges so quickly that you're about to cap BF charges before you've actually done anything.