Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Jaronicity]

I think it's a similar discussion. If the spec was more around poisons it would help Sin scale better with mastery being a better stat for it. Agonizing being replaced by a talent that helps with mastery or poisons will help Sin produce better damage. While Agonizing stays it will just always be an issue because the spec will need to be designed around Sin using either Deadly or Agonizing Poison.

While I agree with your point re: mastery, I get the feeling most people want poisons just because they aren't bleeds and "dispatching foes with poisons" or whatever the little blurb says. I feel like most of the outcry is not because it would scale better (though that's not to say some people aren't saying that), it's just to "not be a feral druid" or some different class theme or what have you. Truth be told, the class fantasy is meant to deal with poisons and I would love it if they just changed garrote and rupture to poison damage and nerf it so that it all scales or even just have envenom scale with mastery or interact with MP. In the end, they're not going to replace talents so I wouldn't get your hopes up with Agonizing being removed and just hope they keep putting the slight nerfs in for Outlaw. I think people would feel better about the poison:bleed ratio if the other two specs weren't so behind Outlaw. I expect/hope to see minor nerfing/tweaking over the next few weeks to bring the specs more in line with each other.

[elcapone]

While I agree with your point re: mastery, I get the feeling most people want poisons just because they aren't bleeds and "dispatching foes with poisons" or whatever the little blurb says. I feel like most of the outcry is not because it would scale better (though that's not to say some people aren't saying that), it's just to "not be a feral druid" or some different class theme or what have you. Truth be told, the class fantasy is meant to deal with poisons and I would love it if they just changed garrote and rupture to poison damage and nerf it so that it all scales or even just have envenom scale with mastery or interact with MP. In the end, they're not going to replace talents so I wouldn't get your hopes up with Agonizing being removed and just hope they keep putting the slight nerfs in for Outlaw. I think people would feel better about the poison:bleed ratio if the other two specs weren't so behind Outlaw. I expect/hope to see minor nerfing/tweaking over the next few weeks to bring the specs more in line with each other.

why cant they make mastery affect both bleeds and poison

[hablix]

While I agree with your point re: mastery, I get the feeling most people want poisons just because they aren't bleeds and "dispatching foes with poisons" or whatever the little blurb says. I feel like most of the outcry is not because it would scale better (though that's not to say some people aren't saying that), it's just to "not be a feral druid" or some different class theme or what have you. Truth be told, the class fantasy is meant to deal with poisons and I would love it if they just changed garrote and rupture to poison damage and nerf it so that it all scales or even just have envenom scale with mastery or interact with MP. In the end, they're not going to replace talents so I wouldn't get your hopes up with Agonizing being removed and just hope they keep putting the slight nerfs in for Outlaw. I think people would feel better about the poison:bleed ratio if the other two specs weren't so behind Outlaw. I expect/hope to see minor nerfing/tweaking over the next few weeks to bring the specs more in line with each other.

This is exactly right, and say for example instead of making Garrote a rotational ability they left Garrote alone and made a new ability that functioned in the *exact same way* that the current Garrote does (minus the silence) but dealt poison damage instead of bleed damage I'd probably be more or less satisfied that the Assassination fantasy was fulfilled.

I'm not sure exactly why this is a big deal to me, but it is.

[Deleted]

This is exactly right, and say for example instead of making Garrote a rotational ability they left Garrote alone and made a new ability that functioned in the *exact same way* that the current Garrote does (minus the silence) but dealt poison damage instead of bleed damage I'd probably be more or less satisfied that the Assassination fantasy was fulfilled.

I'm not sure exactly why this is a big deal to me, but it is.

Its so weird to me that the best spec for assassination(and by far the most fun) has so many bleeds and only one poison.

I know there is a lot of passive poisons proccing from all sorts of attacks. But what happens passively doesnt really matter. The rotation is about putting up bleeds and making them do the damage.

[plato13]

they should give us the old venomous wounds. it would make all bleed to do poison dmg aswell. wich would also make exsanguinate scale with mastery

[Deleted]

they should give us the old venomous wounds. it would make all bleed to do poison dmg aswell. wich would also make exsanguinate scale with mastery

Not quite, all Exsanguinate does is reduce the duration of Bleeds and increase the damage appropriately. They don't actually tick faster.

[TheRogue]

I'm not sure how I fell about the elaborate planning buff. 5 seconds is a very small window, which is fine because we will just pool energy like usual before envenom in a poison spec. I personally would have preferred a length of time buff equal to the 3% dmg buff. Basically making it the same length as envenom would be great.

But like everyone is saying in this thread, having agonising and deadly be mutually exclusive just isn't working for most of us. Good to see a slight buff to poisons though.

[omeomorfismo]

Not quite, all Exsanguinate does is reduce the duration of Bleeds and increase the damage appropriately. They don't actually tick faster.

no, actually the ticks are faster, every second

[clevin]

I still don't like that poisons affect both weapons and miss the days when I could apply different poisons to each weapon as the situation and my preferences dictate.

[precious]

why cant they make mastery affect both bleeds and poison

Cause first of all it would scale out of control after some point in expansion, and second u cant have same mastery with other classes.

Its called mastery (master of X ability) for a reason.

[Fheng]

My exact thoughts. When you can have only one lethal poison having both deadly and agonizing makes zero sense.

i've been preaching this on the beta forums for so long, Blizzard just won't bite on it. It literally makes no sense whatsoever like it buffs your poison damage and doesn't do damage. Does blizzard not understand what Non-lethal and lethal means? But maybe in the future when they realize its what the spec needs to survive and be competitive compared to its current sorry state.

[Deleted]

My suggestion for Assassination spec' :

- Apply to Mastery: Potent poisons and Master poisoner for Envenom, Bag of tricks, Kingsbane, and Creeping venom.
- Replace Thuggee by Flying daggers (PvP talent) and vice versa.
(Thuggee : The Garrote silence effect works out camouflage but its effect reduce by 1sec.)
- Delete Agonizing poison and replaced by System shock(PvP talent); and System shock replaced by Hemotoxin: 45sec cooldown / Reduces the target's maximum health by 15% for 15 sec. Requires a bleed effect to be active on the target.
- Replace Death from above by Crimson tempest.
- Replace tooltip Venom rush by that of Overkill.
(http://www.wowhead.com/spell=58426/overkill).
- Shadow walker reduces the cooldown of ShadowStep by 3sec.
(Artifact : 3/6/10/13/16/20 sec)
- (Artifact) Shadow swiftness when you use ShadowStep, the cooldown of Sprint is reset.
- Replace Assassin's blades(artifact) by Vile Poisons.
(Your poisons have a chance to resist dispel and damage / effects are to increase by 5%.)

This is the work I do for this spec ' .

[Kuntantee]

Is bag of tricks ain't working or it's just me? Never seen it proc'ed.

[Yhcti]

Seem to be enjoying Assa far too much. I think it's the whole DoT + Leeching Poison thing that is winning me over for levelling currently. I did play Outlaw until 102 but just loved Assassination so went for it. Cleave, AoE is a breeze... Single Target is just crazy. No worries at all.

How far behind IS Assa compared to Outlaw at 110? I'm tempted to just stay Assa for as long as possible but if it's severely gimped vs Outlaw then i'll obviously make the swap near 110 so I don't completely gimp myself with my Artifacts...

Also, did you guys find Assa > Outlaw for levelling?

[Master Guns]

I'm currently smashing any outlaw rogue in 5 mans, especially single target as assass. I'm top dps every boss and when I've been grouped with outlaw rogues I'm doing at least 20k more dps st. Their AoE is far superior though.

[Sedativ]

I'm currently smashing any outlaw rogue in 5 mans, especially single target as assass. I'm top dps every boss and when I've been grouped with outlaw rogues I'm doing at least 20k more dps st. Their AoE is far superior though.

I'm assassination as well and I'm experiencing similar. The prediction was always that assass was going to be stronger under 840 and that when we go above and into tier that's when outlaw is going to catch/surpass us. We'll see.

[Shao]

I'm currently smashing any outlaw rogue in 5 mans, especially single target as assass. I'm top dps every boss and when I've been grouped with outlaw rogues I'm doing at least 20k more dps st. Their AoE is far superior though.

I'm experiencing the opposite. I've lead every dungeon in total dmg + dps as Outlaw. Including doubling the dps of an Assassination rogue. Maybe he was a bad rogue, but double the dps? And this is both for single target and AoE.

[shaunika123]

I'm currently smashing any outlaw rogue in 5 mans, especially single target as assass. I'm top dps every boss and when I've been grouped with outlaw rogues I'm doing at least 20k more dps st. Their AoE is far superior though.

and then gear happens

[Shao]

replied to wrong post! duh

[Deleted]

Forgot to mention the other rogue was both higher level and ilvl than me. I was 105 at the time, maybe Bleeding Hollow Toxin Vessel is too OP for Outlaw below 110?

I've also beaten everyone I've been in LFD with as Outlaw without the class trinket, so if you have it, you'll wreck it even more since Run Through is hitting so hard as it is