No luck with packs, grinding gets me nowhere. Getting beat by deep pockets

[JeeroyLenkins]

So, I've been playing Hearthstone for a while. Having little money to spend in games, I decided to go the F2P route and work my way up. However, it's only been a tough grind with little reward. Getting owned by much better decks with seemingly endless legendaries, even at rank 20.

"You must probably suck. Get good", you say? I already went on Icy Veins, looked up strategies and built the optimum decks with all the basic cards as listed there. But even then, you can't beat an opponent with a much better deck most of the time, unless you get really lucky. I managed to work myself up to rank 18 to 17 for a few months using the Icy Veins recommended decks using basic cards. But whatever, I'll grind it out I thought to myself. I'd do the daily quests until I get enough to buy packs.

After months of grinding, I've bought well over 120 packs (I used to keep count, lost count at 100). So far, I've only managed to get 4 legendaries (even though I should have about 6 by now, since the drop rate is supposed to be 1 in 20). And after looking them up on Icy Veins, I found out that 3 of them are useless and only 1 might be good for control decks (Rhonin). My last legendary was Hemet Nessingwary, a complete slap to the face. Months of work for 1 decent card, and 3 useless ones. Brilliant. I was holding out a tiny bit of hope that Blizz might actually buff Hemet so he wouldn't be useless. But I recently read that Blizz don't buff Hearthstone cards.... ever. Again, another stupid decision that makes me wonder why. Why would they allow such a dead card to exist?

So, again I continue down my valley of depression. After disenchanting all my doubles into dust, I'm left with about 800 in dust. I decide to put some real effort into making a professional deck that would take me past rank 17. Again, back to Icy Veins and Hearthpwn to find some good decks. But utter frustration as I realize that even the cheapest of the cheap entry-level decks cost at least 2000+ dust to make. Even with the cards I already had, it would still cost me at the very least 1500 extra dust to make a sub-par deck of any value (almost double the amount of dust I already have). Now I probably could have enough, but it would require me to cannibalize almost every card I unpacked during the better part of a year.

Now I've finally questioned what I've spent the better part of this past year doing. Have I benefited at all from all my grinding? No, I can't even get past rank 18-17. I don't even have the bare-minimum amount of dust to make a decent deck, unless I disenchant 80% of my cards. The final nail in the coffin came earlier today, when I was stuck at rank 20 for over an hour as I went on a huge losing streak. One mega-legendary deck after another. Dr Boom's and Ragnaros's as far as the eye could see. Do higher-ranked players purposefully surrender matches at higher ranks, just so they can drop down to lower ranks and own noobs with their legendary decks for quick gold? That seriously feels like what's happening.

In any event, I feel like this game rewards the most despicable aspects of gaming behavior. Deep pocket players benefit the most, pay to win culture from day one, and higher ranked players can get easy gold by down-ranking and owning noobs. I can't have fun anymore playing like this.

[durrtygoodz]

If you're not willing to spend a single penny on this game that's fine but don't bitch and moan on those who do. I've spent money on HS but I've got far more hours of entertainment out of the game than other popular games that cost more money upfront. It's your choice that the development time put into the game is worth zero to you, but don't sit here saying you played the game for a whole fucking year and that it's unfair you didn't get more enjoyment and entertainment from spending fucking nothing. The entitlement is real.

That said, if you really grinded for ONE WHOLE YEAR then sorry but that's more than enough time to craft 1 top tier deck that you can grind more wins with.

You also said that we're not allowed to reply "get good". Well actually if you did "get good" at arena you'd be able to play endlessly and get every card that way.

[hulkgor]

Unless you have deep pockets, or simply get paid for playing it, hearthstone is not the game for you if you want to go 'competitive'.

It's great for the occasional game on the ipad, or just to waste 10m every now on then.... but other than that, fuck it. The time you'll take by grinding it out to even have a chance of some decent cards is absolutely unacceptable.

[JeeroyLenkins]

It's your choice that the development time put into the game is worth zero to you, but don't sit here saying you played the game for a whole fucking year and that it's unfair you didn't get more enjoyment and entertainment from spending fucking nothing. The entitlement is real.

I would have no problem at all if Hearthstone cost say $15 or $20, and had no pay-2-win element in it. I'd be more than fine with that. And btw, Blizz aren't exactly hurting for cash anyway. I'm not entitled either, I've already handed over over hundreds of bucks in WoW expansions and subscription fees by now.

[De Lupe]

Sounds like you just had a bit of bad luck with that losing streak.

Is it pay to win? No more than Magic, or Yu-Gi-Oh, or Pokemon, or ANY OTHER CARD GAME out there. HS is probably the most forgiving card game because, unlike other card games, you can craft your own cards for free.

Furthermore, it is possible to get to legend rank with basic cards.

Another solution, stop playing ranked. Get to twenty for the card back and then leave it. That's what I do, and I enjoy the game just fine. Ranked is a joke anyways. Between quests and a few wins, I make about a hundred gold a day which translates into a card pack a day which translates into dust everyday. Not counting the adventure cards (most of which I don't use and would GLADLY disenchant for the dust if I could [looking at you KT!]), I only have Velen, Vol'Jin, Krush, Gaz'Rilla, Acidmaw, and the Mal'Ganis I just crafted, and I win battles just fine. You don't have to have "the best" (and I use that term lightly) cards in the game to win.

[Prada]

I dont think you should make it your objective to make it to higher ranks. That will make the game frustrating. Just do like i do, play the game as much as you can to learn the various classes, because what i realize is that strategies vary alot and will require you to fine tune your decks. I never spent money on the games, just bought packs with every 100g i make and now you can get a free pack with each brawl. You can try your luck with arenas but I dont like the gamble for class and cards aspect of it.

Sometimes, on a quiet night, you might end up playing against other players at your level or under and stack up several wins.
Remember, the players you face are using some sort of strategy as well, try to learn it and decide if you would like to try it out as well, so you know how to invest your dust and gold.

Personal Tip: try buying as much GvG decks as possible. I have had very good luck with mech decks so far

[Raugnaut]

Oh look, yet another "I get my ass kicked by ppl who pay if I had their cards I'd be legend already" thread.

You have a number of options. Your first, and most profitable, is, of course, Arena.

In the Arena, you get access to ALL the cards in the entire game, every single last one, both including the useless trash, and the good cards. Thing is, EVERYONE doing Arena has the exact same odds you do. Sure, you might face up against somebody who got the good side of the RNG and has 4-5 good legendaries (I still feel a bit sour about that one dude who played a Dr. Boom, Ragnaros, and a Ysera, on turn 7, 8, 9 respectively in an arena match), but, really, Arena is 35% RNG, and 65% having the skill to make the best of your lot.

In Arena, all you have to do to break even with buying a pack, is 3 games. 3 single games. If you have ANY modicum of skill, no matter how piss poor your RNG is for your card choice in making a deck, you can win 3 games in Arena. Of course, the more skillful you are, the better your rewards will be - Reaching 12 wins in Arena is equivalent to, what, 7 card packs? All for 150g. Damn, and not only do you get card packs significantly faster playing Arena, you get to work on your own skill, being able to make great decisions no matter what hand you are dealt!

[Kathranis]

You don't really offer any insight into how you play the game, what kind of cards you have, what kind of deck you want, or even what your goal with the game is.

Do you maximize your gold gains? Do you complete all your quests? Do you disenchant bad cards? Do you craft good ones? Have you made any effort to save up and purchase the Adventures?

You say you played for "over an hour," but that's not very many games. Four or five, maybe? That's not even really enough games to determine how viable a deck is. Certainly not long enough for a novice player to learn how to play a particular deck against other decks on the ladder.

If your goal is to hit Legendary, you have to put in a lot of time and effort, especially if you're doing it F2P. But it's definitely doable. Skill and deckbuilding trump cash, as several pro players have shown by hitting Legendary on F2P accounts. If you want to get better and advance higher, you need to practice and study the game, and create goals for yourself. You need to know what kind of deck you want to play, what cards you need to craft, how to play it, and how it performs against other decks. You need to learn to guage the meta and make alterations to your deck.


Honestly, though, Rank 17 is respectable for a novice player without many cards. If you look at the statistics, only the top 25% of players even make it to Rank 15 each season, and only the top 7.5% make it to Rank 10.

The competition becomes exponentially more difficult as you progress further through the ranks. You may not even be aware of this, but in addition to facing increasingly seasoned players with better decks, the number of stars needed to advance increases at Ranks 15 and 10, and starting at Rank 5 win streaks no longer grant extra stars.

You've played long enough that you should at least be able to craft one solid deck that can consistently take you to Rank 15.

[Blueobelisk]

Lololol I only hit rank 18 this season. If you really want to win you have to have a legit deck. If you REALLY want to win, you have to have multiple decks with a lot of card options. I guess you can be one of those people who played this game since beta, or you can spend $$. That's just how it is.

[Krazzorx]

Only thing I wish is casual had some mmr ranking for new players because no new player is basically beating even rank 19/20 hand locks and secret Paladins.

Game shouldn't be fun only ranks 25-20 at mid-end of month.

F2P part is getting harder but if all you care about is getting ranks, there's lots of cheapo decks like face huntard, dragon priest is pretty cheap, secret paladin is pretty cheap too.

[Twoddle]

I'm in the same boat as you OP. Been playing since last December, done every single daily quest, opened all the adventures and bought the Grand Tournament with some left over free poker winnings in my Paypal account. That was the only real money spent and it wasn't even my own money it was given away on a new poker site.

Somehow I've opened 14 Legendaries in packs during that time but most of them are crap, that's not including Legendaries from adventures, 2 of them were crafted, Boom and Sylvanas, next will most likely be Ysera.

However I do not play this game to progress in ranks I play it to amass gold and to increase my collection because the ranking is flawed due to its pay-to-win nature. Every season I Face Hunter my way to rank 10 for the end of season reward and then play fun decks either in ranked or in casual. Face Hunter is the easiest, fastest and cheapest way to get you up the ranks IMO.

But yeah, the first cards I crafted were some mechs and Defender of Argus but Zoo Warlock and Face Hunter are pretty good cheap decks also, go with whatever you have and craft any cheap cards you need. I didn't craft any Legendaries until quite recently. I Won't disenchant cards unless they are excess because that's throwing away months of grinding.

Skill and deckbuilding trump cash, as several pro players have shown by hitting Legendary on F2P accounts.

Not recently they haven't.

You also need TIME, lots of it and you must be prepared to disenchant the rest of your collection to streamline your main deck. The average player won't do that. I believe Firebat tried and failed to get past rank 5 with a free-to-play deck and isn't Trump is still stuck on rank 10 or so with his Priest after like 3 months?

[PPN]

All the pay to win stuff is just really not true. My m8 started play HS in april on an US account. To be able to play with him i also made another account (blizz...give x-realm friend-games!!!).

I never invested into that account and i dont even do all the dailies. I have 2 legendaries from packs...Malygos and Garrosh. I rarely buy packs, mostly i unlock adventures, since those cards are very good (atm i unlocked whole Naxx and 2 Wings from BRF). I usually reach rank 15 by just doing dailies.

I also said to my m8 that his priority should be the adventures. He is now 2 wings ahead of me in BRF, since he bought some packs and also played arenas (where his average is about 1-3). I made him about 3-4 decks (Hunter,Priest,Lock,Mage...i considered them easier with a small card pool) and explained him whats the idea of the decks. With his more or less F2P facehunter (i crafted 2 traps and 2 bows) he reached rank 10. With the other decks he manages to get about to rank 15.

Im pretty much an average player. I can make it to rank 10, where i get bored to play to much the same deck...but the most of the season i experiment with some fun decks around rank 14.

Thats said..in the end it is more fun and also easier to be good with a bigger pool of cards. Just focus on the expansions in the start.

[Kronik85]

You can get to rank 5 playing joke decks OP, it's definitely you. I know it's easier to believe that it's about dropping massive amounts of money on the game but it really isn't. Only compulsory Legendary is Boom and it will die to BGH every time it leaves your hand, you still play it in every deck like but that's his fate.

[Blueobelisk]

You also need TIME, lots of it and you must be prepared to disenchant the rest of your collection to streamline your main deck. The average player won't do that. and isn't Trump is still stuck on rank 10 or so with his Priest after like 3 months?

Trump got to rank 4 in like the first month or two, and that was with him going to like tournaments.

But holy shit he played like 175+ ranked games with that boring ass priest deck. I think I'd kill myself.

You can get to rank 5 playing joke decks OP, it's definitely you. I know it's easier to believe that it's about dropping massive amounts of money on the game but it really isn't. Only compulsory Legendary is Boom and it will die to BGH every time it leaves your hand, you still play it in every deck like but that's his fate.

>That feeling when you have one Knife Jugglar, zero Big Game Hunters, one Piloted Shredder, zero Doctor Booms, and missing all the niche class cards.

Like if you have the staple cards everything else gets compared too, then you're okay. It's not a "joke deck" if you have those cards.

[Kronik85]

>That feeling when you have one Knife Jugglar, zero Big Game Hunters, one Piloted Shredder, zero Doctor Booms, and missing all the niche class cards.

Like if you have the staple cards everything else gets compared too, then you're okay. It's not a "joke deck" if you have those cards.

On this sub forum anything that isn't some tier 1 deck is incapable of climbing the ladder. But I'm definitely empathetic to the plight of new players but the OP has been playing for "months", they should of been able to craft those staples by now. I was talking about watching Dog hit Legend with Gang Up, Kibbler's Dragons in anything lists and Zilea's OTK Priest.

Hunter isn't what it was power wise but it's made of commons and rares and it will definitely see you to Legend. One problem is the more Control you want your deck to be the more the dust cost will rise, to play on low budget means accepting your going full Cancer, but there is great power in aggro and it will work in more than Hunter lists. Super aggressive Zoo's, Divine Favour Pallies and old school Backspace Rogues will still get you to that Sea Giant's chest at the end of the season.

Dear <insert fave streamer>. I want to craft a Control Warrior but I'm missing Grommash, Ysera, Sylvannas, Geddon, a BGH and all the adventures. What can I replace them with?

[zinfandel]

Its unfortunate that ranks 18-20 are one of the toughest places to make any progress. There are lots of people with good decks wanting to get their 500 wins who steamroller their way. (as an aside, I think anyone with a legendary in their deck should have to play higher ranked opponent than their actual rank, until rank 15, but that's just me).

There are solutions though:

Dust the terrible legendaries. This happens to us all I am afraid. I got two copies of mogre the ogre in my first 4 legendaries. The upside of no buffs is that you won't regret dusting card when it later improves - as it won't.

Arena - has been mentioned.

Face hunter - there are a ton of face hunter decks that are very cheap - one dusted legendary would sort it - get to rank 17 and go back to playing your preferred decks

Casual play - tends to have more variety in opponents and is an easier way of knocking off quests with less than ideal classes

Acceptance - most players will never reach a rank better than 10. Those that do may have spent money, but they also play ALOT. Its pretty basic maths to work out how many games you have to play at a typical 65% winrate to get to various ranks - the bottom line is that it's TONS. If you don't have the time to play like that, there is no point getting put out that you dont somehow fly to high rank.

[Seezer]

I would have no problem at all if Hearthstone cost say $15 or $20, and had no pay-2-win element in it. I'd be more than fine with that. And btw, Blizz aren't exactly hurting for cash anyway. I'm not entitled either, I've already handed over over hundreds of bucks in WoW expansions and subscription fees by now.

Looking at guides doesn't mean you are knowledgeable enough to win. Neither does building optimal decks. And the "getting beat by deep pockets" statement kind of confirms that you overestimate yourself. How do you know people have "deep pockets"? How do you know they're even buying packs? Sometimes you have to just admit that you may not be as good as you think.

[Nikkaszal]

It's one thing to look at decks, it's another thing entirely how you actually play them

I build basic decks for my newbie friends. I rip through the rankings till about 15 or so with JUST basics to show them that the deck can win, because I know how to mulligan, anticipate and trade efficiently, how to keep track of cards played, and when to ignore the board and to face to secure a kill next turn

Pass it back to my friends, and they lose back up to the 20s. Because they're not as experienced

So yeah. Get good.

[Stormspellz]

I would have no problem at all if Hearthstone cost say $15 or $20, and had no pay-2-win element in it. I'd be more than fine with that. And btw, Blizz aren't exactly hurting for cash anyway. I'm not entitled either, I've already handed over over hundreds of bucks in WoW expansions and subscription fees by now.

crafting a top tier netdeck isn't hard even without cash.

[Bapestar]

Honestly I haven't even spent money on this new expansion. Seems like Blizzard keeps throwing out these expansions with a bunch of shitty cards. Basically confirms Blizzard is very greedy.