1. #1

    Mythic Velhari Help -- Tips/Tricks?

    So our guild started on Mythic Velhari last night. Fight doesn't seem *too* hard, and we managed to get her to 27% on our second pull. We're just looking for any tips/tricks to streamline the process better.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/p3FtQJaYXAPyz9Cn

    Those are the logs from the pulls last night. We're 4 healing, running with 2 Locks. It's looking like our DPS will manage to kill her in ~5:30 minutes, so we won't get a 6th Edict. I have a couple of questions though in regards to Legendary Ring and Lust usage.

    We're getting her to P2 at around the 2m mark. Should we be Lusting and Ringing here? We did this last night, and pushed her in to P3 at the 3:30 mark. I'm curious if we're focusing too much on the add or too little. Is our balance good as it is?

    In handling the first 3 Edicts, what's a good healing CD rotation to use? We run a HPally, RDRuid, RShaman, and DPriest while also having 2 Rogues for Smoke Bombs and a DK for AMZ.

    Finally, in P3, I know we need to group up under the boss to handle Despoiled Ground. How often does this go out and how much should we be moving? Since we have about 30s from entering P3 until an Edict goes out, what's a good way to handle the movement so that we're in line with/near a Warlock gate? Our problem with that wipe was that we weren't to it yet, as we overestimated how much we'd need to move. As it stands, we should only be getting 2 Edicts in the final phase.

    In general, just hoping someone can peruse over our logs and point out any glaring flaws. That was only our second pull, so I'm sure we can pick it up.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Don't focus the 1st and 2nd adds, especially not during P2. You want to burn the boss as hard as you possibly can to push through P2 because of the nasty Health debuff. Adds have to die in passive Cleave/Dots. Only Arms Warrior is fine to go directly on adds for Execute with Sweeping Strikes.

    1st add should die in cleave before 2nd add spawns (around 60% boss HP, no problem if it dies earlier but please, don't hardswitch on add unless you risk having two adds at the same time)
    2nd add dies with start of P3 - we kill it fast once P3 starts to have a clean P3.
    3rd add must die ASAP.

    Lust + Ring + CDs when 2nd add spawns in P2.

    Despoiled Ground: have everyone in your raid enable Countdown in DBM/BigWigs for Bulwark of the Tyrant and/or have someone in voice who counts down for everyone. Then move. (Mark Tanks and/or an assigned player)

    Edict P3/Locks: Your Warlocks have to anticipate movement and set the Portals on demand shortly before (~10sec) Edict. Announce Edict for everyone in voice some seconds before so anybody can mouseover Portal and instantly click it.


    PS:
    IMO you can describe the phases as
    P1 = basically Tank'n'Spank, have nobody die to stupid shit because you will need the CRs later
    P2 = DPS Race, plan Healing CDs well, hope your tanks don't get instagibbed
    P3 = coordinate group movement, have people instant-clicking the Portals for Edicts, boss dies anyway if nobody fucks up at this point
    Last edited by chooi; 2015-11-20 at 06:20 PM.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    If you got her to 27% on your 2nd pull I'm sure you won't have many issues. Anyway to your questions:

    We also push p2 around the time the ring comes up and we do lust and ring there. The timing worked really well for us cos that way we got the ring explosion buffed with hero hitting only the boss in the down time between the 2 adds so I strongly recommend doing that.

    For edicts what we did was barrier 1st one (that way barrier is up for the double knockback when add spawns in p3), for 2nd you can use just a SLT (its not hard to heal since you're stacked and it happens early p2) and for the 3rd one you can use devo/tranq/bomb. You can use everything else for tempest or any other points you struggle at.

    As with the moving and edicts in last phase, just find something that works and stick to it every pull, that way you can set up the portals beforehand. Despoiled ground comes often so just move enough to stay out of it. What we did was basically start from p2 positions (exactly where the boss is) and move in a way that after 3 despoiled grounds you're in the corner of the room. Thats when the knockbacks will happen (1 from add spawn and 1 from boss) so make sure u're against a wall. The edict will happen shortly before that so you need a portal there. After that point you just need to keep tanks alive and don't fail the last edict. When you manage to kill the add the fight is basically over.

  4. #4
    Also keep in mind that the Edicts always come at full minutes. So they are very easily predictable.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zackie View Post
    If you got her to 27% on your 2nd pull I'm sure you won't have many issues. Anyway to your questions:

    We also push p2 around the time the ring comes up and we do lust and ring there. The timing worked really well for us cos that way we got the ring explosion buffed with hero hitting only the boss in the down time between the 2 adds so I strongly recommend doing that.

    For edicts what we did was barrier 1st one (that way barrier is up for the double knockback when add spawns in p3), for 2nd you can use just a SLT (its not hard to heal since you're stacked and it happens early p2) and for the 3rd one you can use devo/tranq/bomb. You can use everything else for tempest or any other points you struggle at.

    As with the moving and edicts in last phase, just find something that works and stick to it every pull, that way you can set up the portals beforehand. Despoiled ground comes often so just move enough to stay out of it. What we did was basically start from p2 positions (exactly where the boss is) and move in a way that after 3 despoiled grounds you're in the corner of the room. Thats when the knockbacks will happen (1 from add spawn and 1 from boss) so make sure u're against a wall. The edict will happen shortly before that so you need a portal there. After that point you just need to keep tanks alive and don't fail the last edict. When you manage to kill the add the fight is basically over.
    How do you handle killing the adds? We were trying to find a "sweet" spot in regards to how much damage we should have done to them. When the P1 add spawns at 90%, do you ignore it and continue to burn boss? What % Health is it at when you enter P2? Upon entering P2 and Ringing/Lusting, are you aiming to have the Ring explosion only hit the boss? Similar to my first question, what % Health is the add at when you enter P3?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chooi View Post
    Don't focus the 1st and 2nd adds, especially not during P2. You want to burn the boss as hard as you possibly can to push through P2 because of the nasty Health debuff. Adds have to die in passive Cleave/Dots. Only Arms Warrior is fine to go directly on adds for Execute with Sweeping Strikes.

    1st add should die in cleave before 2nd add spawns (around 60% boss HP, no problem if it dies earlier but please, don't hardswitch on add unless you risk having two adds at the same time)
    2nd add dies with start of P3 - we kill it fast once P3 starts to have a clean P3.
    3rd add must die ASAP.

    Lust + Ring + CDs when 2nd add spawns in P2.

    Despoiled Ground: have everyone in your raid enable Countdown in DBM/BigWigs for Bulwark of the Tyrant and/or have someone in voice who counts down for everyone. Then move. (Mark Tanks and/or an assigned player)

    Edict P3/Locks: Your Warlocks have to anticipate movement and set the Portals on demand shortly before (~10sec) Edict. Announce Edict for everyone in voice some seconds before so anybody can mouseover Portal and instantly click it.


    PS:
    IMO you can describe the phases as
    P1 = basically Tank'n'Spank, have nobody die to stupid shit because you will need the CRs later
    P2 = DPS Race, plan Healing CDs well, hope your tanks don't get instagibbed
    P3 = coordinate group movement, have people instant-clicking the Portals for Edicts, boss dies anyway if nobody fucks up at this point
    So, with the first add, the goal is to simply kill it before the second one spawns via cleave? And along a similar vein, if we're focusing only Velhari in P2, won't we enter in to P3 with the P2 Add having a lot of health left?

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Layke View Post
    How do you handle killing the adds? We were trying to find a "sweet" spot in regards to how much damage we should have done to them. When the P1 add spawns at 90%, do you ignore it and continue to burn boss? What % Health is it at when you enter P2? Upon entering P2 and Ringing/Lusting, are you aiming to have the Ring explosion only hit the boss? Similar to my first question, what % Health is the add at when you enter P3?
    We just cleave the first 2 adds and obviously zerg the 3rd one. On our first kills we were entering p2 with the 1st add around 30-40% health. We did usually have 1-2 monks and 2 warriors tho which increase damage on it quite a lot without losing boss dmg. Ring would usually come up a few seconds in p2 like I said in my first post. So we would use the ring and lust at that point, while the 1st add was around 20-30% health, and make sure the add is dead when the ring exploded. We found that this way we gained a HUGE increase in boss dmg in p2 (iirc it usually went from 62% to 57% just with the explosion). Similarly, the 2nd add was usually around 20-30% when p2 ended. Difference here is, you have to finish it instantly as soon as you transition to p3.

    To sum it all up, the only dps check in p1 is pushing before the 3rd tempest/2nd edict combo. As long as you can make that, you can squeeze any dmg you want on the add via cleave etc. However, boss dmg in p2 is VERY important, the more you do on her, the easier the last phase will be (even 5% extra health in the beginning of the last phase will make a huge difference). So basically, never reduce your boss dmg during p2 (only do it to make sure you kill 1st add before 2nd ring explosion which like I mentioned will result in more boss dmg). Then as soon as you hit p3, finish 2nd add and of course zerg the 3rd add when it's up (since boss is basically immune at that point and your tanks are getting pounded).

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Layke View Post
    So, with the first add, the goal is to simply kill it before the second one spawns via cleave? And along a similar vein, if we're focusing only Velhari in P2, won't we enter in to P3 with the P2 Add having a lot of health left?
    Probably not, but even if it does happen it's not a big deal. You need to get out of P2 asap, because if your damage is lacking everyone will drop so low that even the ~70k Corrupted Blasts become lethal. It will also make the first few Despoiled Grounds much more dangerous. Once you get out of P2 you are free to focus some damage onto the add to kill it because P3 is more about surviving. Once you get the Gavels and Edicts sorted, you're looking at a kill.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Looking at that particular try you linked, It might be smart if your guardian druid actually used Kilrogg's Dead Eye as it helps alot and the reason for the wipe was most likely his/death.

    Also maybe he should either focus on mastery/MS instead of a crit, as dps will not be useful as druids until farm (and maybe Gorefiend).

    Also she/he has extremely low uptime on SD. This will atleast solve the tank deaths.

  9. #9
    On progression we held lust and ring until 3 minute cds came up in p2 but I dont know what the phase times are with the ilvl bump and we're just lusting in p3 now to pad anyway.

    I dont know why so many suggestions to lust on 2nd add spawn. The add really has no bearing to the fight, would rather hold for something more relevant than an add (that doesnt need to be damaged that much) spawning.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Albimoo View Post
    On progression we held lust and ring until 3 minute cds came up in p2 but I dont know what the phase times are with the ilvl bump and we're just lusting in p3 now to pad anyway.

    I dont know why so many suggestions to lust on 2nd add spawn. The add really has no bearing to the fight, would rather hold for something more relevant than an add (that doesnt need to be damaged that much) spawning.
    So what is a more relevant time then? P2 is the dps check on this fight, and slow damage in that phase (and its consequences going into P3) is usually what wipes guilds. So you hero in P2 but wait until the add spawns so you lose less dps from the knockback. You don't hero for the add, you hero to get out of P2 asap.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Albimoo View Post
    On progression we held lust and ring until 3 minute cds came up in p2 but I dont know what the phase times are with the ilvl bump and we're just lusting in p3 now to pad anyway.

    I dont know why so many suggestions to lust on 2nd add spawn. The add really has no bearing to the fight, would rather hold for something more relevant than an add (that doesnt need to be damaged that much) spawning.
    If you lust and ring before you hit 60% and yall get knocked back, its not a huge time sink lost but it'll be a noticable chunk to if you simply wait until after the knockback.

    Also at lower gear levels it would give you the ability to use 3 minute cooldowns with the ring. Also a noticable power increase when everything is multiplicative.

    Now you can probably either wait for 3 minute cooldowns (boss will prolly be close to 50%), or you can use it as soon as it is up.

  12. #12
    With the item level buff dps isn't really a thing anymore. If you're progressing 5-healing would help ease the stress of phase 3 tank healing.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    We do it with 5 healers just because its such a faceroll, people can be dumb as heck(in p1/p2) and you'll still be in no danger of wiping to anything, with the ilvl increase and with 5 healers we still enter p3 with 40% hp(and some casuals in the group ). DPS requirements aren't really there anymore, you just need to have everyone alive and use defensive cd's in some of the needed parts of the fight.

    With the DPS the OP's guild had i see them killing it quite easily as long as they sac the edicts in p3. If you go to last phase with all CR's up, it should be a kill, just focus on that.

  14. #14
    We have everyone pop Shieldtronics near the start of P3 because raid health is at its lowest point. You don't have to do that exactly, but Shieldtronics are far better than Healing Tonics for this fight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, Velhari is a demon boss so everyone that has them can use Orb of Voidsight and Gronntooth War Horn.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercool View Post
    We have everyone pop Shieldtronics near the start of P3 because raid health is at its lowest point. You don't have to do that exactly, but Shieldtronics are far better than Healing Tonics for this fight.
    I was going to say the same thing. Switching to sheildtronics was definitely helpful for our guild as well. I think we used them just before the first gavel. Although in the logs linked in the OP they had like 2 people using health tonics at all so that should be something they address as well.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Drish View Post
    If you lust and ring before you hit 60% and yall get knocked back, its not a huge time sink lost but it'll be a noticable chunk to if you simply wait until after the knockback.

    Also at lower gear levels it would give you the ability to use 3 minute cooldowns with the ring. Also a noticable power increase when everything is multiplicative.

    Now you can probably either wait for 3 minute cooldowns (boss will prolly be close to 50%), or you can use it as soon as it is up.
    If the boss is still above 40% after bloodlust is used at 3 minutes then there is absolutely no reason not to hold it and ring for that stage. In fact it would be silly not to in progression.

    In what world would you not want to sacrifice a bit of damage (potential additional use of cool downs by classes with CDs less than 3 minutes) to get an incredibly higher net raid dps by also stacking up the 3 minute cool downs with lust and ring.

    As long as dps hasn't gotten so high that you bring it below 40% before 3:45 any guild progressing on the boss should be saving. Phase one is simple and phase 3 is surviving the first 2 edicts and 3 gavels. The only dps check is in p2 so save and stack your CDs for it.

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