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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Madus View Post
    Nature Vigil is baseline .
    I don't think we're going to get it at level 1. Might be a PvP talent, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilma View Post
    It depends how much per second it will cost. 400%/sec is good if we can make it last and I think we can. I figured with shooting stars generation (Moon/Sunfire both have a chance to shoot bolt that generates 5 astral power) i.e. 3 targets , 3 sets of dots, all getting shooting stars; You'll basically never run out of astral power on a 3 target fight while having 10 dots up. (stellar flare, moonfire/sunfire, collasping stars)

    I feel like you may have to stop using starsurge so the dot could do damage. And empowerments+Warrior+Full moon+Incarn+Current CA would be a better choice.

    It was really more about the astral power generation to keep collasping stars going.
    We're talking burst, though. So doing a lot of damage in a short time, and it's hard to argue that Collapsing Stars isn't pre-destined for that kind of thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NikolayCD View Post
    Furthermore, I believe that Sunfire's DPET will be tuned such that it is only worth casting if you can hit 2+ targets (possibly even 3+), or if you are on the move and have nothing better to cast.
    Sunfire is 63% SP Instant+168% SP DoT
    Moonfire is 63% + 252%
    Both do the same initial and per tick.
    Solar Wrath does 128.6% 1.5s cast, Lunar Strike is 175% 2.5s cast.
    Starsurge 350%
    Starfall 9*21%(i.e. 189% per target, so we only need two for it to beat SS)

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Sunfire is 63% SP Instant+168% SP DoT
    Moonfire is 63% + 252%
    Both do the same initial and per tick.
    Solar Wrath does 128.6% 1.5s cast, Lunar Strike is 175% 2.5s cast.
    Starsurge 350%
    Starfall 9*21%(i.e. 189% per target, so we only need two for it to beat SS)
    Thanks for compiling this info. I'd found some of these coefficients but not all. A few notes:

    - SuF at 231% SP total for 1 GCD would be higher DPET than LS/SW and thus probably worth casting even on single target, even if it doesn't generate any AP (assuming you don't take Shooting Stars for ST). This seems frustratingly high-maintenance to me. Imagine a 2-3 target council fight where all of the bosses are spread out so Sunfire doesn't cleave. This could potentially turn into a situation that we're just not very good at, despite being a dot class, because we have to spend so much time refreshing dots that we can't generate enough AP to cast our good spells. That all depends on the Shooting Stars proc chance though.

    - Starfall beats out SS at 2 targets for raw damage per cast, but it also costs 20 extra AP. So in terms of damage per AP, you need three targets. You also give up the Lunar and Solar Empowerments, increasing MF/SuF damage on affected targets instead - whether this is net positive depends on % of damage from dots vs nukes. Not to mention all of the talents that combo well with SS/LS/SW play and increase AP gen.

  3. #43
    Shooting stars looks like it will always be taken just due to the fact it generates ap and there's like only 1 fight per tier where it's 1 target only.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by NikolayCD View Post
    - SuF at 231% SP total for 1 GCD would be higher DPET than LS/SW and thus probably worth casting even on single target, even if it doesn't generate any AP (assuming you don't take Shooting Stars for ST). This seems frustratingly high-maintenance to me. Imagine a 2-3 target council fight where all of the bosses are spread out so Sunfire doesn't cleave. This could potentially turn into a situation that we're just not very good at, despite being a dot class, because we have to spend so much time refreshing dots that we can't generate enough AP to cast our good spells. That all depends on the Shooting Stars proc chance though.
    I really hope they reconsider DoT durations. 14s i can live with, but 8 is a bit crazy.

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    Might as well add this here...
    http://media.mmo-champion.com/images...ELUNE_D_01.jpg
    http://media.mmo-champion.com/images...ELUNE_D_02.jpg
    http://media.mmo-champion.com/images...ELUNE_D_03.jpg
    http://media.mmo-champion.com/images...ELUNE_D_04.jpg
    http://media.mmo-champion.com/images...ELUNE_D_05.jpg

    An artifact so powerful, it constantly glows from what seeps out...

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    Quote Originally Posted by NikolayCD View Post
    Thanks for compiling this info. I'd found some of these coefficients but not all.
    Just for reference: Collapsing Stars cast at 100 AP with no further generation causes 4600% SP, or 46% per AP spent. Asymptotically approaches 40% SP/AP as it is prolonged.

    Something tells me that this is going to get some different effect in PvP...

  5. #45
    I'm really stoked for the Collapsing Stars gameplay. IF it stays at 10 AP/sec, with high haste it should be possible to keep up for a very long time. It would be a similar playstyle to to BoS DKs. It would devalue mastery as a stat quite a bit though.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by PursueTheChase View Post
    I'm really stoked for the Collapsing Stars gameplay. IF it stays at 10 AP/sec, with high haste it should be possible to keep up for a very long time. It would be a similar playstyle to to BoS DKs. It would devalue mastery as a stat quite a bit though.
    Even in the very simple scenario of 0 haste and Lunar Strike spamming you could easily keep it up for at least 22 seconds (some quick math involved so don't judge) which is like 9400% SP worth of damage? I'll be surprised if it makes it in as is.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramelch View Post
    Even in the very simple scenario of 0 haste and Lunar Strike spamming you could easily keep it up for at least 22 seconds (some quick math involved so don't judge) which is like 9400% SP worth of damage? I'll be surprised if it makes it in as is.
    Well, it also makes it mandatory to be able to cast it all the time (no movement, dotting only under uptime loss) and you can't use Starsurge, get empowerments and other buffs that come with Starsurge usage. On the other hand...Bloodlust and other haste buffs will make the uptime even higher. Maybe it will result in a Combustion scenario where everything you do is supposed to maximize the damage of one explicit spell.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    Well, it also makes it mandatory to be able to cast it all the time (no movement, dotting only under uptime loss) and you can't use Starsurge, get empowerments and other buffs that come with Starsurge usage. On the other hand...Bloodlust and other haste buffs will make the uptime even higher. Maybe it will result in a Combustion scenario where everything you do is supposed to maximize the damage of one explicit spell.
    Well yeah and you're also losing CA, but idk, the number seems too high. Also it obviously depends on the other talent rows as well (especially lvl 15 and lvl 90).

  9. #49
    None of the level 90 talents match up too much, and for the level 15 ones all depends on whether or not the shooting stars has a target limit and its proc chance. It will probably end up between it and the two instant LS.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleuria View Post
    Shooting stars looks like it will always be taken just due to the fact it generates ap and there's like only 1 fight per tier where it's 1 target only.
    We don't know if the mechanic is Nightmare, MOP-DR, or MOP pre-DR.
    The Boomkings(WIP) :: YouTube Project

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramelch View Post
    Well yeah and you're also losing CA, but idk, the number seems too high. Also it obviously depends on the other talent rows as well (especially lvl 15 and lvl 90).
    Don't worry about the numbers to much. Balancing and tuning passes don't happen until the last months of beta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyous View Post
    We don't know if the mechanic is Nightmare, MOP-DR, or MOP pre-DR.
    Could also be RPPM based. We won't know until we actually get to test it.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by PursueTheChase View Post
    None of the level 90 talents match up too much, and for the level 15 ones all depends on whether or not the shooting stars has a target limit and its proc chance. It will probably end up between it and the two instant LS.
    Nature's Balance most definitely does as to get most of that talent surely you'll need to avoid refreshing dots during it.

  13. #53
    Perhaps. Although at high haste levels it may become beneficial to let one fall off and only use one of the two generators instead.

  14. #54
    This isn't exactly Balance specific, but looking at the world-drop legendaries show that they don't have secondary stats, only pure main stat with powerful effects. I'm curious as to what people think of the two Balance specific items, as they seem to overlap and I am not sure if this is actually a good thing. Will this mean we will want one of the two or both? Is the effect strong enough to negate the lack of secondary stats? Important to note that one of the pieces is a chest, the other are shoulders, which are historically two large pieces in terms of stat-allotment.

  15. #55
    Something tells me those items aren't even close to done yet. They will be a complete pain to balance around if some of their effects go in as is.

  16. #56
    One of them is probably either going to be removed or get a different effect.

  17. #57
    most of those items read leather with effects for locks wars etc so no way are they final. since we're most likely going to start at ilevel 800, 140 ilevels woth of intellect alone is worth it. Considering what most others do, my wishlist for them goes something like increase DoT duration by 100-150%, cause ls to generateextra ap for each target hit and boost wrath ap generation.

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    also if collapsing stars counts as a dot how much would be all its remaining damage if we have the op neck proc.

  18. #58
    So we aren't getting any NEW talent row for level 110 right? Does that mean all the "talent-like" effects post 100 will be from artifacts? Do we have ANY info on what sort of boosts Artifacts give yet?

  19. #59
    nope. but looking at deadwind harvester from blizzcon we get some new interactive ability, some quality of life changes and some old school stuff like increase crit of x ability by y %.

  20. #60
    An active ability related to the artifact, a few major changes, and a bunch of minor utility/throughput increase traits.

    The active is always the first node you can select and should be gotten fairly quickly after acquiring the Artifact.

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