[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Polarthief]

What happens if I begin casting Full moon and the target moves?

Despite where the moon falls, the target always gets hit. I'm not sure about the split AoE portion (whether it's located at the time of finishing the cast or the moon actually hitting; no idea), but I've never "missed" the target in that sense.

[Irefusetodie]

Has anyone crunched the numbers on trinkets? I feel like we're going to be using Whispers/Metronome/a TF statstick along with Sentinel on ST and Charm on AoE.

[Slippykins]

Has anyone crunched the numbers on trinkets? I feel like we're going to be using Whispers/Metronome/a TF statstick along with Sentinel on ST and Charm on AoE.

No number crunching yet, but from PTR tests the Owl trinket is doing ~10% DPS on ST, so we will most likely run Whispers/Owl for ST and Whispers/something for AoE. Probably Owl.

[elynos]

No number crunching yet, but from PTR tests the Owl trinket is doing ~10% DPS on ST, so we will most likely run Whispers/Owl for ST and Whispers/something for AoE. Probably Owl.

Would that be due to the trinket doing arcane damage so CI buffs it?

[Polarthief]

No number crunching yet, but from PTR tests the Owl trinket is doing ~10% DPS on ST, so we will most likely run Whispers/Owl for ST and Whispers/something for AoE. Probably Owl.

Whispers is good enough to be used over trinkets with 30-45 iLvls ahead of it? Oh fun. That'll probs get nerfed since Draught's already been fucked for Warriors.

[Deleted]

Whispers is good enough to be used over trinkets with 30-45 iLvls ahead of it? Oh fun. That'll probs get nerfed since Draught's already been fucked for Warriors.

it's about equal to ~30 ilvl higher stat stick in mythic ToS gear. Doubt it's enought to warant a nerf, DoS and Convergence were (in convergence case, is) straight up threatening to be BiS in the Argus raid.

[huth]

Eh, i'm more surprised they haven't done it yet, since it scales with your gear.

[wewe]

The notion of having to run Gul'Dan over and over again for Whispers is pretty annoying. At least I'm sitting on 925 one hopefully that will last me sometime.

[Slippykins]

From discussions with some hunters and other boomkins, it looks like the PPM of the Owl trinket is above what's stated. People are getting around 20-30 procs per use, when the average should be 7-8.

e: could just be haste scaling.

[Olski11]

im actually curious if with the new ring together with OI or IFE will pull ahead on ST since SS and SF are pretty close together dmg wise.
hope they rework FoE at some point, so we can choose between a couple of different builds.

[Polarthief]

im actually curious if with the new ring together with OI or IFE will pull ahead on ST since SS and SF are pretty close together dmg wise.

Regardless of how close together the two are, SOTA is awful if you don't Starfall on a fight (OI procs don't count for this btw). It's best on fights that has both ST and AoE, and still a great choice for AoE-heavy fights too (Incarnation is always good to have).

If a fight is pure ST, or with very little AoE (like < 5% uptime on AoE/cleave), SOTA is very lackluster compared to some others (OI, IFE, etc). Hell, I'm pretty sure SOTA is worse than LATC for ST.

[Olski11]

i think you got me wrong, i meant if we play the 3 dot style and just spam starfall instead of starsurge. OI just to benefit the 20% empowerment dmg u get from Sotf.

[Polarthief]

i think you got me wrong, i meant if we play the 3 dot style and just spam starfall instead of starsurge.

Are you talking about Stellar Flare? That was already shown to be inferior for single target.

You said "ST" so I assumed you just meant single target fights. If that's not the case, my apologies, otherwise my post still stands according to sims.

[Olski11]

u got me any charts for sims with the new ring? would be great tho.

[Polarthief]

From Slippykins's thread, this is for pure Single Target. Notice how StFl is way down there, as is any instance of SOTA.
Again, PURE Single Target. More uptime on adds/AsP spending on Starfall = the better SOTA gets. (remember, you have to actually spend AsP on Starfall for SOTA's power to matter. Only using OI procs doesn't matter since SOTA doesn't do anything but reduce Starfall's AsP cost).

[elynos]

Regardless of how close together the two are, SOTA is awful if you don't Starfall on a fight (OI procs don't count for this btw). It's best on fights that has both ST and AoE, and still a great choice for AoE-heavy fights too (Incarnation is always good to have).

If a fight is pure ST, or with very little AoE (like < 5% uptime on AoE/cleave), SOTA is very lackluster compared to some others (OI, IFE, etc). Hell, I'm pretty sure SOTA is worse than LATC for ST.

Gonna have to disagree, at least for me sotf and Inc are very similar on pure st fights. So the new SOTA ring will be giving me a big boost even on st fights.

[Polarthief]

Gonna have to disagree, at least for me sotf and Inc are very similar on pure st fights. So the new SOTA ring will be giving me a big boost even on st fights.

If that's how it works for you, great! All I'm doing is posting Slippy's sims and he definitely theorycrafts a hell of a lot better than I ever will, so if anything, I'm just parroting what he says, and that picture shows that the general sim has SOTA significantly behind other legendaries for ST (even Elune; look at the gap between IFE/Elune and 2P/4P+OI/SOTA. That's a 115k gap!).

Now if these sims are outdated, totally understandable. Like I said, just going off what Slip has posted, and even still, I'll likely end up running IFE or OI + SOTA myself on every fight because I'm a Lazykin who runs the same talents (SL, SotF [soon Inc], ShS, SD) on every fight anyways, but I'm well aware that's not optimal (for ST fights).

I am curious how you get Inc and SotF being that close together on raw ST fights though (especially considering no fights in Nighthold in Legion thus far are pure ST, except pre-Mythic Trilliax/Ursoc).

[branbib]

Gonna have to disagree, at least for me sotf and Inc are very similar on pure st fights. So the new SOTA ring will be giving me a big boost even on st fights.

Are you using SF instead of SS on single target? Because that's the only situation where SotF may be relatively close to incarnation. And even then - SS rotation+IFE/OI/ED still deals a lot more dmg than SF rotation + SotA. In other words - we will never use SotA on pure ST fights.

[Deleted]

From Slippykins's thread, this is for pure Single Target. Notice how StFl is way down there, as is any instance of SOTA.
Again, PURE Single Target. More uptime on adds/AsP spending on Starfall = the better SOTA gets. (remember, you have to actually spend AsP on Starfall for SOTA's power to matter. Only using OI procs doesn't matter since SOTA doesn't do anything but reduce Starfall's AsP cost).

Balance druid looks pretty solid moving into 7.2.5 if we can trust these sims?

[Bugg]

Yep we should get the same numbers once they introduce a passive 'all spells may be cast while moving' BM style.
Until then...