[Balance] Legion Discussion

[wing5wong]

Hey, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. Actually, the default moonkin rotation needs quite a bit of work. It was the last one our theorycrafter did right before our launch, and it's the only class he hasn't played (other than for an hour on the beta, which I suppose doesn't count).

If anyone is interested in helping us give some love to that rotation, hit us up! DM me, join our discord, or our forums, etc etc. Take your pick!

you after the PTR rotation?
SnF, MF, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, SS, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, SS, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, SS
=(

[Xeromus]

you after the PTR rotation?
SnF, MF, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, SS, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, SS, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, SS
=(

FeelsBadMan when this is actually true

[Deleted]

(I'm also tired of reading "Why change Starfall?!" posts; biased hate, basically.)

Im tired of white knights you accept everything blizzard does with a "yes, sir!"....

Get your Battle Horn ready.

.....thats not the same AT ALL and you know it.....

Talking about old content vs current content.
i mean its nice that you could do that for low level content, but its not a reason to keep it that way

You could do that also in wod for farming rep - which I did with another owl buddy.....

[Frostyfire14]

FeelsBadMan when this is actually true

so true.

#SunfireMoonFireWrathx7StarsurgeREPEAT

[wing5wong]

Im tired of white knights you accept everything blizzard does with a "yes, sir!"....

You could do that also in wod for farming rep - which I did with another owl buddy.....

Funny how whenever you agree with a concept change you are suddenly a white knight. the game changes and evolves, not everything is set in stone.

You still dot to kill shit, unless you're ridiculously geared.

[Borawa]

Can we stop talking about things we cant change and wont change. Starfall isnt going back to what it was. Ya ill miss it for farming, ill miss getting starfall with 90% uptime. The concept of starfall now requires skill to use properly. While i believe it is going to require maybe some minor tuning its not a mindless button anymore. There werent choices to using starfall in wod, there wasnt skill involved. If i saw 3 targets i hit starfall what engaging playstyle.

And before anyone talks about white knighting anymore, 90% of the people in this thread seem to be complaining about some sort of change. Just because they dont complain about what you think is wrong doesnt make them white knights.

[Cyous]

Im tired of white knights you accept everything blizzard does with a "yes, sir!"....

Boohoo, having a different opinion makes me a white knight.

Maybe next time I'll hound them to change absolutely nothing so you can have the shitfest that other classes are going through.

Because of all the changes I've asked since Week 1 of ALPHA :: Here's what you'd be stuck with without people like me:
-- Incarnation for ANOTHER expansion. (Got Stellar Flare buffed mechanically, got SOTF to work with Starfall)
-- "The Reaping"
-- Crappy Solar Beam for another expansion
-- Innervating DPS for more damage.
-- 18/14sec DOTs
-- Casting limited to 1.0sec (now goes to 0.50sec)
-- DOTs don't effect Astral Power (+3 on cast, was 0)
-- A shitty New Moon mechanic. (was: 0,0,100 -- now 10,20,40)
-- No partial Astral Power
-- Fury of Elune cannot be moved while casting
-- Shitty legendaries.

If telling them what's wrong makes me a "yes man" then keep complaining even when we are not being treated like WW Monks.

[Madus]

No point to flame just because blizz is incompetent/lazy/burnedout and have no idea how to finish spec design... Its their shit in their mouth when unsub numbers start grow just because gameplay will be boring.

[Dumdidum]

-- Shitty legendaries.

Do you think you can bring them to change those crappy boots to something like 33,3% cast time reduce per stack and 50-100% heal increase and a cap of 3 stacks or after a killing blow your next healing touch is instant and heals for 200-300% more, because right now with 20 stacks needed for an instant healing touch those boots are just awful.
With my change they might even be some use for them in an raid environment, I remember a lot of times where I safed somebodys ass with natureswiftness healing touch

[Nerxyrall]

-- Incarnation for ANOTHER expansion

Would have liked that actually...On the PTR the CD "feels" pretty weak now.
Sidequestion: Can you give a really rough estimate how the 3 coices in that row compete against each other?

-- Casting limited to 1.0sec (now goes to 0.50sec)

Does that mean the gcd goes down to 0,5 sec?
Is it for every spec or only Balance? (I think Feral and Rogue have something special with a 1 sec gcd baseline or something)
Would be really nice if you could elobverate on it.

Thanks

[Cyous]

Do you think you can bring them to change those crappy boots to something like 33,3% cast time reduce per stack and 50-100% heal increase and a cap of 3 stacks or after a killing blow your next healing touch is instant and heals for 200-300% more, because right now with 20 stacks needed for an instant healing touch those boots are just awful.
With my change they might even be some use for them in an raid environment, I remember a lot of times where I safed somebodys ass with natureswiftness healing touch

The person who designs legendaries might be making a pass shortly. But we've let them know on the Beta forums (yes, they read those), how we feel about this particular legendary. no communication, no real insight.

Would have liked that actually...On the PTR the CD "feels" pretty weak now.
Sidequestion: Can you give a really rough estimate how the 3 coices in that row compete against each other?



Does that mean the gcd goes down to 0,5 sec?
Is it for every spec or only Balance? (I think Feral and Rogue have something special with a 1 sec gcd baseline or something)
Would be really nice if you could elobverate on it.

Thanks

Note on Incarnation --> It's time to use something else. Incarnation is a magic puzzle piece, it fits everywhere. It shouldn't be the best talent for every situation.

SOTF vs. Incanration --> SOTF is stronger than most players think. Do not underestimate it.

SOTF vs. Stellar Flare --> SOTF is better for single-target.

But if Guardian Affinity is left as is, then we should be able to tank Mythic Dungeons. This means we can weave Stellar Flare and DOTs between melee attacks, or stopattacks (casting). Thus we hit some decent DPS numbers with FOE + AC, Thrash, Moonfire/Sunfire, etc. Crazy complex, but actually reasonably viable. Stellar Flare would offer the highest DPS talent in that case.

Stellar Flare is probably very strong on 2 targets. Need more testing.

Incarnation's role hasn't changed. But it's just a longer CA at this point. Great for burn phases, but not so much for sustained dps.

- - - - -

I think the GCD stays at 1.0sec, but temporary Haste effects allow it to be reduced to 0.5sec. (Starlord, Bloodlust?, Moon and Stars). Otherwise yes, just goes down to 0.5sec. (might actually be 0.75sec...but this doesn't really matter at this point)

[Deleted]

...

delete

[Xeromus]

artifact quest bugged -.- cant get past deadwind hunt, cause worgen dont move anywhere

Phasing issues afaik. I had to faction transfer -> ignore the intro scenario etc and go straight to the artifact quest stuff and it worked fine for me, Been an issue for quite a few builds now though, and one that a lot of people have been vocal about (basically any artifact quest involving deadwind pass goes pete tong usually)

[dreamdaddy]

you after the PTR rotation?
SnF, MF, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, SS, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, SS, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, Wrath, SS
=(

Anecdotal evidence but on the PTR, I've been seeing the highest single target unbuffed dps with the following as an iLevel 742 M HFC-geared Boomkin running Seed/DSI:

• Build - Starlord / Incarnation / BotA / Nature's Balance (Turret Spec)
• Opener - Sunfire, Moonfire, Wrath until >80 Asp, Lunar Strike (to refresh Moonfire), Incarnation/Ring, SS, LS, SW
• Rotation - Build to SS, prioritize casting Empowerments, then Wrath but also cast LS to refresh Moonfire (you might have to cast some non-empowered LSs)

[Deleted]

I have not been playing a lot of balance on the beta but with resto and gaurdian also looking good im going to main boomkin in legion. Tonight ive been having some fun on the new LFR. Probably did it 3 times, playing around with talents. Note I used the vers heavy pvp gear and didnt have any proper trinkets.

First boss (the dragon - 100% single target)
I went with starlord, Stellar flare, BotA(Elune) and nature balance. I really like Natures balance. Never really bothered with the similar talant on live but it frees up a lot od GCD's to do other stuff like Stellar Flare. Maybe sotf is a bit better but I didnt do any indepth research just wanted to see how it plays.

Second boss, Eye of corruption something.
Swapped to shooting stars and Stellar drift. Starfall is great here due to the little adds and tentacles. Also still used Stellar flare on the bigger adds that lived a bit longer. Warriors and such did a lot more dps but boomkin felt good. Have to do a bit more testing to see how effective Shooting stars is. It did about 1-2% of damage but the real question is how much AP it gives compared to the other option.

Third boss - Spiderbird
Mainly single target again. Just used starfall when the adds spawned. I was pleasantly suprised we still had dash (not pruned yey) to get to the other platforms.

Overall druid felt solid and am exited to really dig in for legion. I tried playing a bit with treants too but while they did ~500k for one GCD the other talents probably give more overall. Warrior of elune is maybe strong in certain situation with movement but think it not that strong.

[Borawa]

I have not been playing a lot of balance on the beta but with resto and gaurdian also looking good im going to main boomkin in legion. Tonight ive been having some fun on the new LFR. Probably did it 3 times, playing around with talents. Note I used the vers heavy pvp gear and didnt have any proper trinkets.

First boss (the dragon - 100% single target)
I went with starlord, Stellar flare, BotA(Elune) and nature balance. I really like Natures balance. Never really bothered with the similar talant on live but it frees up a lot od GCD's to do other stuff like Stellar Flare. Maybe sotf is a bit better but I didnt do any indepth research just wanted to see how it plays.

Second boss, Eye of corruption something.
Swapped to shooting stars and Stellar drift. Starfall is great here due to the little adds and tentacles. Also still used Stellar flare on the bigger adds that lived a bit longer. Warriors and such did a lot more dps but boomkin felt good. Have to do a bit more testing to see how effective Shooting stars is. It did about 1-2% of damage but the real question is how much AP it gives compared to the other option.

Third boss - Spiderbird
Mainly single target again. Just used starfall when the adds spawned. I was pleasantly suprised we still had dash (not pruned yey) to get to the other platforms.

Overall druid felt solid and am exited to really dig in for legion. I tried playing a bit with treants too but while they did ~500k for one GCD the other talents probably give more overall. Warrior of elune is maybe strong in certain situation with movement but think it not that strong.

Im pretty certain fury would beat stellar drift in most situations. Just a 2 target cleave for 10-15 seconds can be huge for that spell. Shooting stars isnt about the damage it does but about the asp it generated. So you look over the amount of times it hit a target and multiply that by 5 to get the AsP you generated over the fight.
I think starlords a pretty underwhelming talent to be entirely honest. Most of our casts are not affected by the talent.

[Xorn]

so true.

#SunfireMoonFireWrathx7StarsurgeREPEAT

This is sort of what I worked out playing around with the spec. I've been spamming Wrath, and dumping a LS before SS once I hit 3 charges so as not to waste them or AP. I assume we want to try to go into CA with 3 charges of LS and full AP? Is... is that really all there is to it?

[wing5wong]

for ptr yea.
might be worth adding LS instead of refreshing Moonfires with natures balance, but not sure

[Frostyfire14]

for ptr yea.
might be worth adding LS instead of refreshing Moonfires with natures balance, but not sure

I enjoy Nature's Balance more than I anticipated. It's actually super nice; although, kinda wish it was baked into the "revamp". But oh well, I currently use it for single target testing. Like I said, working out quite well.

[Xorn]

I don't like Nature's Balance. It just doesn't feel... satisfying. Maybe if it were a lower level talent, but it feels lackluster for level 100. They all sort of do.