Resto Druid - Legion Talents

[KrinKer]

I pushed an update which leverages your method of calculating average HoTs - so far the results seem to reliable, but I'm still working the kinks out of the accuracy of the combat metrics as I've stumbled upon several bugs.

I'm going to need to track HoT effects by spell ID since only the triggered effect of Cenarion Ward benefits from mastery, but both spells are called Cenarion Ward, so for the 30s it is up, it is erroneously being considered as buffing mastery.

Aside from that, has anyone else noticed weirdness with Cenarion Ward's interplay with mastery. It seems to be fine when I test it with Healing Touch, but when it comes to hots, I seem to get a larger than predicted bonus from the Cenarion Ward heal. It's a pretty tiny bonus and it's only there for 8 seconds so it's not like it is game breaking, I'm just trying to understand why it happens.

Lifebloom (Base): 2657
Lifebloom (+CW): 3076
Lifebloom (+RJ): 2968
Lifebloomr(+RJ+Germ): 3280

Rejuv (Base): 6373
Rejuv (+CW): 7379
Rejuv (+Germ): 7121
Rejuv (+Germ+RG): 7867

Does it do the same when used with Flourish ?

[Yakibob]

What artifact traits should I ne aiming for before raids start, assuming it wont be maxed at that time.

[theburned]

What artifact traits should I ne aiming for before raids start, assuming it wont be maxed at that time.

Definitely won't be maxed out before Emerald Nightmare.

As for traits, Dream walker and tranquil mind would be the major ones we are going after, so taking the upper path to dreamwalker (grovewalker, nature's essence etc.) then moving down towards tranquil mind, (6% to IB and 10% to our direct heals.)
After this work your way towards power of the archdruid by picking up the persistence and reduced mana cost to wild growth.

As an off-note it can be worth picking up the 1 point in lifebloom after tranquil mind in case you got the lifebloom legendary, if not pick it up after Power of the archdruid.

Last finish off with swiftmend -> living seed, and finish off with the last point in mark of the shifting.

[Yakibob]

That's pretty much the path I was shooting for. Minimum amount of traits to get dream walker, then go down to tranquil mind. Wasn't sure if I should go for some mana reduction/regen first. Thanks for the details! Cant wait to be able to tranq on the move!

[Nevcairiel]

Cultivation and Germination changed spots again in the latest build, returning Cultivation into its old row next to SotF and ToL.
Germination in the 90 row probably has a better chance of being useful depending on stacking and non-stacking fights (ie. Spring Blossoms aint great when limited people stand in it).

[Grinia]

What about the spellpower coeff change of Cultivation? MMO-C reports it but only in the tooltip, but Wowhead doesn't at all. Is that a new/old/erroneous change?

[stormgust]

What about the spellpower coeff change of Cultivation? MMO-C reports it but only in the tooltip, but Wowhead doesn't at all. Is that a new/old/erroneous change?

Was nerfed to 60% when they moved it back to T90 several builds ago, so just a datamine error on MMO-C's part.

Cultivation and Germination changed spots again in the latest build, returning Cultivation into its old row next to SotF and ToL.
Germination in the 90 row probably has a better chance of being useful depending on stacking and non-stacking fights (ie. Spring Blossoms aint great when limited people stand in it).

Cultivation doesn't compete with neither SotF nor ToL with just 60% SP/s, as you do not get reasonably many cultivation procs (resp. additional casts on the cultivation hot) to beat the additional healing provided by SotF (and if it actually were equal, you're back to ToL having no purpose at all).

As for Germination on T90, the only reason to pick Germination is, if you need those 360%SP/18s on a fixed targets, otherwise more, additional, free HoTs and healing are significantly superior. So in short, you pick Germination in mythic5+, SB for raiding.

[Nevcairiel]

Was nerfed to 60% when they moved it back to T90 several builds ago, so just a datamine error on MMO-C's part.

Still says 120% on wowhead as well though, guess I'll be checking on the beta in the morning.

[Kaeth]

Just hopped on my beta druid. As of the current build, the Cultivation HoT is identical in strength, per tick, to Rejuvenation itself. It's essentially auto double Rejuv on any target below 60% HP, until they are healed above 60% or Rejuvenation falls off.

I believe that would make it 60% SP per tick?

[Nevcairiel]

I believe that would make it 60% SP per tick?

60% per tick seems correct, which is as strong as a rejuv tick indeed. Different tooltips on different pages like to mix up overall SP with per-tick SP.

[Nythiz]

Cultivation doesn't compete with neither SotF nor ToL with just 60% SP/s, as you do not get reasonably many cultivation procs (resp. additional casts on the cultivation hot) to beat the additional healing provided by SotF (and if it actually were equal, you're back to ToL having no purpose at all).

As for Germination on T90, the only reason to pick Germination is, if you need those 360%SP/18s on a fixed targets, otherwise more, additional, free HoTs and healing are significantly superior. So in short, you pick Germination in mythic5+, SB for raiding.

I think I prefer it this way though.
The T75 talent line now at least offers choice between three types of throughput increases. Where you can chose depending on the situation or simply your preference.
You have a long CD option in ToL which offers great near instant on demand burst over a somewhat long duration. Great for those phases where you need a lot of healing or where your healing needs to be efficient.
You have SotF which provides you with more frequent and arguably more overal throughput over the course of a fight. But with a downside of needing two GCDs and having to line up spells with different CD lengths.
And you can go with a passive, which might be ideal if you can not use the other two talents to their full potential (be it due to lack of experience/skill or due to encounter situations). Plus this gives more mastery stacks, so could be really good in certain gearsets/encounters

The T90 isn't necessarily much better now. But at least the choice deviated away a bit from having two very similar passive on-proc skills, with SB and Cult.

[Arcursis]

As for Germination on T90, the only reason to pick Germination is, if you need those 360%SP/18s on a fixed targets, otherwise more, additional, free HoTs and healing are significantly superior. So in short, you pick Germination in mythic5+, SB for raiding.

Spring Blossoms over Inner Peace for raiding? Can you explain why this would be default over situational?

[stormgust]

I think I prefer it this way though.
The T75 talent line now at least offers choice between three types of throughput increases. Where you can chose depending on the situation or simply your preference.

The problem is, if you want Cultivation to ever be competitive with SotF, the HoTsize should be reasonable (e.g. the current 120%/6s are fine, maybe slightly too low), but then Cultivation already yields similar throughput to ToL (just all tied into reju vs. slightly spread out), so the only thing ToL has going for it would be mana cost reduction, but that isn't neccesarily a bonus, given that cultivation also occurs those 150s ToL is on CD. I'd personally prefer Spring Blossoms here, but well, then you'd need to place Cultivation next to Germination (and as Cult HoT ~= Germination, just without GCD, the choice here should be rather simple).

Spring Blossoms over Inner Peace for raiding? Can you explain why this would be default over situational?

Most fights don't align their burst phases in a way, which would allow you to place the second >earlier< tranquility adequately. If you cannot fit it, you simply don't use Inner Peace - and currently most fights should favor SB.

[Manaleaf]

Hello! I have written a Resto Druid Stat Weight Weak Aura and Addon and I need your help.

The WA calculates the value of your secondary stats as you play the game. They are based on actual healing done, and are intended to give you the real value for your secondary stats.

I need as many level 110 beta testers as possible uploading their saved variable file to the google drive! For each person who uploads their sessions we will get a much better idea of what are Secondary Stat Weights actually are. Recording is automatic while the WA's are installed and uploading is easy.

The Weak Aura is required (addon is not,) but the (very tiny) addon is required to save your Boss Encounters to a text file. (the WA does not save to file.)

You can download the Weak Aura here:
https://wago.io/VkuAT-pHb

and the addon here:
http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/rdsw/files/
It is an extremely small Addon that only stores the output from the ENCOUNTER weak aura.

Uploading Saved Variable Files:
Find the file at this location:
http://imgur.com/Vx2nqkX

and upload the file here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6...FhzMTBlSThWX1E



Usage:
Once imported through Weak Auras, you will see two Weak Auras, the one Labeled TESTER Runs whenever you are in combat and doesn't reset until you /reloadUI.

The one labeled ENCOUNTER will run only when you start a boss encounter (raid or dungeon) and will save to a file if the addon is installed. This WA resets it's info everything a new boss encounter starts.

In the top section labeled "Stat Values:" the lowest value stat will always be valued at 1, and all others relative to the lowest stat. (ie: if haste heals twice as much per point of haste on your character than versatility does per point of versatility on your character then your stat values should look like:

HST: 2
VRS: 1

Not setup required.

I could definitely use more eyes on the code, please let me know if you spot any bugs, errors, or if you have any questions about how the stats are calculated.

[Lavathing]

Been using your addon/weakaura for some of the normal mode testing Manaleaf. Almost every pull the stats looked like Haste > Crit > Vers > Mastery. Keep in mind, I was using the WG/SotF build (Prosperity/SotF/SB/Flourish) and had a basic artifact (no node unlocked other than the first one). In general, Haste/Crit were very close and Vers/Mast were very close, with a big gap between the two groups. (This seems to agree with what Tib said awhile back: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...5#post40965065)

Also, noticed that your TESTER section was not working as intended. Both TESTER and ENCOUNTER reset every time I started an encounter.

I'll upload the addon file later.

[Manaleaf]

Been using your addon/weakaura for some of the normal mode testing Manaleaf. Almost every pull the stats looked like Haste > Crit > Vers > Mastery. Keep in mind, I was using the WG/SotF build (Prosperity/SotF/SB/Flourish) and had a basic artifact (no node unlocked other than the first one). In general, Haste/Crit were very close and Vers/Mast were very close, with a big gap between the two groups. (This seems to agree with what Tib said awhile back: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...5#post40965065)

Also, noticed that your TESTER section was not working as intended. Both TESTER and ENCOUNTER reset every time I started an encounter.

I'll upload the addon file later.

It has been an interesting night of testing. With 2 other testers and myself, the results were very mix and match.

For me, haste, mastery and crit swapped places constantly between bosses and attempts. The same was the experience for the other two testers. Except one who was using a ToL build found mastery to be most commonly ontop.

Please upload your file to the google drive link so we can compile everyone's experience in a formal way.

On the reset bug. I checked my version and found the function call for resetting the stats for in TESTER was commented out (as it should be.)

https://gyazo.com/b9c87defb4eff4671e8c1394173ee963

If it persist redownload the WA, the download link automatically updates when I update the WA and maybe this was a problem with a previous upload. Thanks for testing!

[Lavathing]

Interesting, Mastery was consistently my worst. I'll redownload the WA and do more testing tomorrow then I'll upload all of my findings.

[stormgust]

I could definitely use more eyes on the code, please let me know if you spot any bugs, errors, or if you have any questions about how the stats are calculated.

I just skimmed it, but it definitely should be 583.333 mastery per 1% (that's not going to change much).

[Nythiz]

The problem is, if you want Cultivation to ever be competitive with SotF, the HoTsize should be reasonable (e.g. the current 120%/6s are fine, maybe slightly too low), but then Cultivation already yields similar throughput to ToL (just all tied into reju vs. slightly spread out), so the only thing ToL has going for it would be mana cost reduction, but that isn't neccesarily a bonus, given that cultivation also occurs those 150s ToL is on CD. I'd personally prefer Spring Blossoms here, but well, then you'd need to place Cultivation next to Germination (and as Cult HoT ~= Germination, just without GCD, the choice here should be rather simple).

SB would be fine too.

THe thing that keeps ToL viable is the fact that it's a cooldown though.

It's ok if Cult and ToL are roughly equal in throughput. It would make cultivation better in situations where you don't pop ToL every 3 minutes or in fights where you are unable to use ToL to it's fullest.
But ToL will still be an extra cooldown, which is really strong per definition (especially since we lose some cooldowns already). Any fight with a bursty phase that requires a lot of rejuvs going out or a few 8 man WGs will benefit more from ToL even if the overal healing doens't differ that much.

I can imagine that on mythic+ all three T75 talent choices can be completely viable based on preference and the type of debuffs you have.
Debuffs with a constant DoT on everyone might benefit a lot from cultivation for that near constant extra rejuv effect.
Debuffs that let mobs enrage or provide healing intensive moments on trash might benefit more from SoTF for a solid burst output every 30 seconds.
Debuffs on bosses that make them do a ton of damage could very well be handled by ToL where, for 30 seconds, you can do very efficient/strong healing through rejuvs and instant regrowths.

I'm not saying it's perfect, and if the balance is off it might be a wacky talent line where we'll be stuck with one of the talents for god knows how long.
But the mechanical setup for this line is IMO decent compared to some alternatives.

Spring Blossoms would make a very good addition here too, instead of cultivation. Although I think that, especially for smaller content (mythic+ / pvp) the choice between SotF / ToL and Cultivation would be more interesting.

- - - Updated - - -

Spring Blossoms over Inner Peace for raiding? Can you explain why this would be default over situational?

Inner Peace is a completely binary talent for me.

Either you required to take it, because the encounter mechanics line up so that you can use it once every 2 minutes instead of once every 3 minutes.
Or that is not needed and there is very little reason to take it.

Spring blossoms in this tier is the only talent that pretty much guarantees higher throughput and efficiency.
Germination here isn't a bad choice, as you can trade the throughput from SB for increased flexibility with double rejuvs. Which CAN increase your throughput in the right situation, but also very well might not. Germination will be really good for a lot of fights, and trading SB can well be worth it in those cases.

Inner Peace though tends to mostly be a YES/NO choice; the only exception I can think of is if there is totally zero need for a tranq like cooldown and you just use this every 2 minutes. Maybe the 50% tranq throughput increase might be the thing for you.
But at that point it's more a question whether or not it's really effective/efficient for your group or whether you're just padding the healing meters.

[trm90]

For what it's worth, HTT, Hymn, and Revival all have 3 minute cooldowns and cannot be specced to reduce their base CDs. Not saying that it makes the talent a *lot* more useful, but it's good to consider Inner Peace in the grand scheme of raid healing. 3 minute CDs are more unforgiving, and being able to spec into a more liberal use of Tranq could be really solid in progression.