Why do "we" have to take in ALL refugee groups (and not just Syrians?)

[Deleted]

Remove the politics aside, remove the progressives, the right wingers, and look at data, rather look at demographics. Europe, in particular Scandinavia, UK are going to have a big demographics problem, that will mirror the Japanese one.

I have rather japans problems than somalias.

[May90]

We'd take in refugees, but they don't want our help. more than 2000000 came through and 49 asked for asylum.

Well, if they themselves don't want help, then there is nothing to do, I guess. I wish European countries (and all the world countries in general) better cooperated on these problems. If, say, France has taken many already, then it could send other refugees to, say, Portugal, that hasn't taken that many yet. Those refugees who refuse to go there would come along as hypocrites that don't care about refuge as such, they just want to live in a luxurious country for free - and those "false" refugees could be offered an alternative of being sent back to their homeland as residing on French territory illegally.

Unfortunately, many people in third world countries see the refuge system as simply being a way to circumvent usual immigration procedures and get into the desired country for free. Such people definitely shouldn't be tolerated, in my opinion. They both discredit real refugees, and make Europeans feel bad for acting on good intentions.

[Deleted]

Can you really blame france that they drastically limit immigration from muslims?
Who could be angry with them?

[shise]

Why do we (EU) have to take them at all? would be the question.

Truth is that people from Scandinavia (for example), have no idea how it is to have a lower wellfare. They go with "we can sacrifice a bit to help others", which at first sounds really good, because it is.

However, I come from a country with corruption on it's culture by default, hence how Spain is now a days. Well, most refugees come from a culture with corruption and other things and you can actually see how in a country like Denmark, corruption and black money has been rising ever since it opened that much to immigration and, ironically, most trouble comes from people from those "certain" countries we all know.


So no, is not about racism, I know it's quite trendy and cool to call people racist, but it's not. It has to do with how this people allowed their countries to be as fucked up as they are, because at the end, the cold truth is that a country is the result of its people.

So instead of taking millions of them in and allow Europe to change for bad (Which is happening form a cultural point of view) we should help them in their countries.
Then, do they want to move into Europe? Fine, they are welcome, but you find a place to stay, pay its rent and find a job by your own, just like we did when we moved within the EU. Sure it is open, but none gave me the 5000€ it costed me to actually do the move, for one.

[Tuesdays]

Because the government needs even more excuses to tax us to death.

1 in 8 Americans are on some sort of government assistance, thinking they wont be happy until we all are full dependent on government.

[Rizendragon]

You don't know why its better to keep refuuges in the region/religion when possible?

Yes I do know that keeping people in their region is the ideal, but that isn't exactly possible. Stating that traditionally Christian nations should only take Christians and traditionally Islamic nations should only take Muslims is basically saying that we should segregate and discriminate based on religion.

Aren't you naive! Yes in an idea world it would be as you say (although we wouldn't have refugees in that world...), but as it's far less likely to cause problems in the long term I think it's best these super rich Muslim nations take in their own, surely it's what Allah or Mohammad would want. India and Pakistan had the sense to split them up, they saw living together would never work. I think it's disgusting how little the Muslims are doing to help their own.

Good to see that sarcasm is lost on certain people...

- - - Updated - - -

Which is what a lot of Eu countries are trying to get, but that is suddenly racist?

I never once said that it was racist, but European countries complaining that the US doesn't take as many refugees is kind of asinine when it's simply because the processes are different.

Edit: apparently neither one of you read my long post from an American refugee worker...

[THE Bigzoman]

Sweden has a birth surplus and have had for a long time. And you don't solve any demographic problems by importing unemployment.



Different times. We needed more workers then, we don't now. We have a high youth unemployment rate, going up to 25% in some regions and otherwise high unemployment rate. If we'd have a low unemployment rate and needed low skill labour, sure, but we don't.

Why are you assuming that imported immigrants are unemployed?

Put your money where that mouth is. Cite me the unemployment rate of the top three immigrant groups in Sweden. If you're trying to argue that they're actively not seeking work, then cite me their labor-force participation rates as well.

tic tock.

[namecraft]

this thread is a shiny ray of sunshine

the people posting should tweet their advice to obama tbh

[Deleted]

Why are you assuming that imported immigrants are unemployed?

Put your money where that mouth is. Cite me the unemployment rate of the top three immigrant groups in Sweden. If you're trying to argue that they're actively not seeking work, then cite me their labor-force participation rates as well.

tic tock.

Top three immigrant groups, lol. Finns and Polish people have relatively high employment rate, Iraqis don't. We're however not getting a lot of finns and polish people today, it's mostly people from non-european countries, which have like 50% gainful employment rate, swedes have like 82% or something. And today, we shouldn't want more people coming here, unless they're doctors, engineers or such. We don't need more low skill labor. We need people with high education, not people who do menial labor. People who doesn't have a high education get imported right into unemployment pretty much. Somalian people have what... 24% employment rate now.

I've stated some of reasons for why this is the case in the other thread about the crisis in Europe, but I'll post the stuff here as well.

1. Our unions are strong and protectionist, as a result people who come here can't drop their wages to become more attractive to employers, because the unions put a stop to that, because they don't want any wage dumping going on. The employer then employs "statistical discrimination"(Which was brought up in what I linked.) against the immigrant/refugee, where they're not willing to risk getting dead weight, which carries me onto nr 2.

2. We have strong employment protection laws, it's close to impossible to get rid of someone once you've employed them, which is why the employer doesn't want to hire someone that seems like a risk("Statistical discrimination"). There is no way to do anything about this unless you want to fuck workers rights over so people can be fired on arbitrary reasons and so forth, or making exceptions in the "last in, first out". You have to grossly misbehave for the employer to be able to fire you.

3. Many live in segregated areas and have close to no contact with any employers, much less anyone not in their area, the people they meet are predominantly their countrymen in the segregated area, who in many cases are in the exactly same situation as they are with lack of contacts that can get them jobs. Breaking already segregated areas is kind of hard. What can be done to prevent more segregation on the other hand, is scrapping the EBO-law(A law that makes sure they can choose where they want to live.) and the state decides where they're placed, so they don't end up in already segregated areas and makes things worse.

4. Lack of lingual skills, this is something that you can't do anything about quickly. Sweden is a country where you're required to speak pretty good Swedish at your job if it's more than just meaningless menial physical labor. It takes time to learn a language.

5. Lack of education, many simply do not have any education that is relevant in the Swedish labor market. They need to be reschooled to become more attractive in the labor market, but that is a problem as well(Looking back at point 4.) since you can't really start reschooling someone before they have learn the language.

[Deleted]

Why are you assuming that imported immigrants are unemployed?

Not immigrants refugees.

German ministry for work estimates only 10% are employable.

[luc54]

Why are you assuming that imported immigrants are unemployed?

Put your money where that mouth is. Cite me the unemployment rate of the top three immigrant groups in Sweden. If you're trying to argue that they're actively not seeking work, then cite me their labor-force participation rates as well.

tic tock.

Well for Finland it's probably similar but here's one:
Somalis:

Total
Whole population 7,465
Labour force 1,883
Employed 592
Unemployed 1,291

Iraqi:

Total
Whole population 6,353
Labour force 2,368
Employed 602
Unemployed 1,766

You can see that the labour participation is absolutely awful for most of them and there's twice as many unemployed than employed people in any of the groups also the labour participation rate is applaing compared to some other nationalities.

Oh and for comparrasion, we get lot of people working here from Russia:
Russia:
Total

Whole population 30,757
Labour force 14,472
Employed 8,911
Unemployed 5,561

and Estonia:

Whole population 44,774
Labour force 27,133
Employed 23,123
Unemployed 4,010

Perhaps it wouldn't be good to compare most of these people that come as "refugees" to a migrant worker.

Data is from 2013 (no newer available). Using http://stat.fi/tup/tilastotietokannat/index_en.html statfin tool

[Muadiib]

@Rizendragon "Good to see that sarcasm is lost on certain people..."

I edited my op to show what I actually meant, your sarcasm was not lost on me

[Deleted]

First: "We" are not taking in refugees from save homecountries.

Second: I don't like it that "we" always have to clean up other peoples shit.

[Deleted]

Well for Finland it's probably similar but here's one:
Somalis: http://pxnet2.stat.fi/PXWeb/pxweb/en...5-6b768d3951bf
Iraqi: http://pxnet2.stat.fi/PXWeb/pxweb/en...5-6b768d3951bf
Afghanistan: http://pxnet2.stat.fi/PXWeb/pxweb/en...5-6b768d3951bf

You can see that the labour participation is absolutely awful for most of them and there's twice as many unemployed than employed people in any of the groups also the labour participation rate is applaing compared to some other nationalities.

Oh and for comparrasion, we get lot of people working here from Russia:
http://pxnet2.stat.fi/PXWeb/pxweb/en...5-6b768d3951bf
and Estonia:
http://pxnet2.stat.fi/PXWeb/pxweb/en...5-6b768d3951bf
Perhaps it wouldn't be good to compare most of these people that come as "refugees" to a migrant worker.

You can't link to those pages, you're gonna have to screenshot it and post the pictures. All you get when others try to visit them is this: Virhetilanne. Virheestä on tehty merkintä.

It's tied to your session ID and stuff, other people can't check it.

[luc54]

You can't link to those pages, you're gonna have to screenshot it and post the pictures. All you get when others try to visit them is this: Virhetilanne. Virheestä on tehty merkintä.

It's tied to your session ID and stuff, other people can't check it.

Argh so much work, shitty system can't even copy paste it.

[Deleted]

Argh so much work, shitty system can't even copy paste it.

Maybe its that way on purpose?

[Deleted]

Argh so much work, shitty system can't even copy paste it.

It's the same with SCB in Sweden. It's fucking stupid, makes it pretty hard to use it and link to people. ._.

[Alydael]

No, it's called retarded politicians who puts their dreams above how things actually are.

I agree 100%. Politicians get to pat themselves on the back, because of how "nice" they are. Meanwhile, it doesn't matter to them because the fallout from these bad decisions will never affect them or their families in any way. It will only negatively impact "us" (the "common folk"). Then they raise our taxes to pay for it..... What great people, these politicians...... bunch of short sighted degenerates (if you ask me).

[luc54]

It's the same with SCB in Sweden. It's fucking stupid, makes it pretty hard to use it and link to people. ._.

Fixed now at least. So annoying to try to allign them especially when tab doesn't even work on mmo champion chat either.

[Orly]

I agree 100%. Politicians get to pat themselves on the back, because of how "nice" they are. Meanwhile, it doesn't matter to them because the fallout from these bad decisions will never affect them or their families in any way. It will only negatively impact "us" (the "common folk"). Then they raise our taxes to pay for it..... What great people, these politicians...... bunch of short sighted degenerates (if you ask me).

It will and harder than anyone else. When a pyramid gets its base heavily eroded, which part of it will have the longest and most brutal fall if not the very top?

This is why I refuse to have any children. Not only do I contribute to this rapid decline of the pyramid, ensuring that this miserable top bites the dust asap, I also make sure I don't force another being into an impossible situation. The future, as it is shaping now, is shaping up to be a horrible one