Assassination into Subtlety

[Gutterwise]

Ayyyyy 'ello, ladies and gentlemen.

So, yeah, I'm just gonna skip the foreplay and get right to it:

I used to swear my life by Assassination, but I decided to try Subtlety. I've had a taste of it and I want more. But, because I'm still quite geared for Assassination (Mastery heavy and an ilvl of 680). I do more damage in that spec. But...I really like Subtlety and want to switch to it full time.

My question is: is there a certain point when I should switch to Sub? Is there some magic number with Multistrike or something? Or, is it after getting 4 pc and these trinkets that I'm becoming familiar with? Or, is it good to go after I just get more practice with it? I'm familiar with the rotation (keep SND up, Backstab, SD on cooldown while pooling for Ambushes for Find Weakness, keep Rupture up).

Forgive me if this is posted somewhere, I haven't managed to come across it, if so.

Thank you!

[Ujio]

Before tier set its all about Find Weakness uptime. When you get 4 piece it changes to using vanish with shadow dance as a dps cd.

You also have to think about pooling a lot more once you get all tier and trinkets because ambush becomes your most important attack during the window of SD / Vanish / master of sub / trinkets / ring.

I'd switch to sub when you have 4 piece, soul cap and class trinket.

[Gutterwise]

Thank you so very much! I really appreciate your insight.

[Deleted]

Unless you have some T17 there is most likely no point where assa is stronger than sub. So switch whenever.

I heard there was a sub guide of some sort somewhere here on the board...

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Guide-for-6-2

[shaunika123]

Unless you have some T17 there is most likely no point where assa is stronger than sub. So switch whenever.

I heard there was a sub guide of some sort somewhere here on the board...

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Guide-for-6-2

assa t18 bonuses give more dps than the t17 ones

without leg ring anduntil about 715 ilvl assa is actually better (assuming you got 4pc and class trinket) if you get the vanilla 715 leg ring and nearing 715+ ilvl they get equal and then sub just gets way ahead. especially because fights in general get shorter so you cant execute as much.

[Deleted]

Do you have any data to support your claim?

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T18N.html

says otherwise

[metalslave]

If you check warcraftlogs at 710 range , sub and assassinaton are head-by-head topping the ST fights (Herioc HFC).

[Deleted]

I don't expect people who are at 710 by now to play their rogue perfectly, because most likely they are alts etc and don't min max as hard.

So them being head by head means sub is most likely stronger as subpar play yields same dps as assa in those logs.

[shaunika123]

Do you have any data to support your claim?

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T18N.html

says otherwise

simcraft is not actual fights

on most fights assa pulls ahead or stays even in lesser gear because fights last longer, adds dont die as fast so you have to help out
yes on fel lord sub is still the best even in HC, however on fights like gorefiend, killrogg, high council, assa is just way more optimal

[Todesbote]

Why even argue about it? Just play whatever you enjoy most or what your raid needs most. If you are more comfortable with Assa you're probably better off playing Assa. Every small mistake in your play is punished much more heavily when you're playing Subtlety. This is why in reality where most players are not perfect and mistakes do happen Assa (more forgiving) can sometimes be on par or even ahead of Subtlety (less forgiving). This is just how it is.
My opinion: what makes Subtlety the better spec for HFC specifically is the huge ST-burst potential it provides. This helps on many fights like Mythic Archimonde or Mythic Socrethar or depending on your tactic on Iskar. However, Assa is fine too. Just follow your heart!

[Deleted]

simcraft is not actual fights

on most fights assa pulls ahead or stays even in lesser gear because fights last longer, adds dont die as fast so you have to help out
yes on fel lord sub is still the best even in HC, however on fights like gorefiend, killrogg, high council, assa is just way more optimal

Simcraft is what a spec at a tunable ilvl is capable of at a tunable fight length.
Logs are what people make of those specs at given ilvl and given length.

What we can conclude is sub has the potential to be stronger at all gear levels at its niche, which is single target but the average person at that ilvl doesn't realize that. I didn't check those statistics, but I think there should be a gap the higher the percentile in those gear brackets.
What I do agree with is that sub has a harder time target switching compared to assa.