The talent overhaul is a huge disappointment ...

[Sosoulsu]

The talent overhaul is okay but the removal of glyphs makes the entire system gimped and reliant on the artifact trees to be amazing.

And now that we see the artifacts have mostly passives...

Hype meter: 0. I guess that's what happens when you remove more from classes than you add.

[Pull My Finger]

That's the point, its not supposed to be a new game, nor is it a new game yet they are charging as if it is. By making this obvious comparison and highlighting this fact does not make his argument completely silly. Defending Blizzard on this and therefore justifying paying more for less on the other hand is.

I really don't know why you're even barging in since you obviously don't even know what I was even quoting and in what context. You're so completely beside the point. I don't care if you're butthurt over Blizzards pricing or whatever, just make sure you have even the slightest idea of what people are on about before butting in.

[Deleted]

Those ele shaman talents are meh. 10% extra damage, 10% extra chance for more damage etc. Weren't those precisely the sort of talents Blizzard said were boring when they changed the talents last time?

How have people not caught onto this yet? It's basic Blizzard tactics to remove features and then later sell them back to the players as "new".

[Frito25]

I don't get it.

There's tons of new talents, some are reiterations of old things we had and are brought back, some are entirely new.

Also remember that you need to think about not just the talent tree itself but also the PvP talents and the artifact build.

http://legion.wowhead.com/talent

http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-pvp

http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calculator

So add those 3 up and you have pretty amazing new combinations.

So many that I was sure I'd be a Demon Hunter or a Rogue, now I am torn about those PLUS Mage, Hunter and Warrior.

[Deleted]

trees have been boring since they stopped being real trees and just choices of three

[Stormspellz]

what about hyjal? highlands? badlands? Nexus? and any other old content that lore wise is dramatically different then current state of the game?

[Throdin]

Legion is already including huge numbers of new class mechanics and abilities. They will have a tough enough time balancing things like the Holy Priest Auto full heal or the Ashbringer's echo without having something unique on every single node.

These flat % upgrades are necessary progression filler to pad out the journey to get to the good stuff. If it was just four nodes, the pacing would be terrible. They want to instill a sense that these artifacts are growing with you, not just in pure numbers via the relic system but giving more significant, incremental bonuses to award your time investment. It also allows you to customise your playstyle a little. Do I want to go ST at first or straight to that cool AoE trait? At least that's how enhancement seems to be playing out.

[howareyou]

As an arms warrior, I'm okay with the change. I believe the arms rotations from before should be baseline, not talents. I'm just hoping the weapon perks are that worth while. Out on the fence until then.

[Deleted]

those artifact trees couldn't be more boring.

They are fan service to all the people who wanted the old talent system back. So now we have a bunch of stuff that gives +xx% to ability yy.
Once theorycrafters are done there will be nice guides to "best talent build" and we all will use those and never switch.

Yawn.

[Nyel]

They are fan service to all the people who wanted the old talent system back. So now we have a bunch of stuff that gives +xx% to ability yy.
Once theorycrafters are done there will be nice guides to "best talent build" and we all will use those and never switch.

Yawn.

You don't even need theorycrafters for this, you can max out your artifact weapon.

[Deleted]

You don't even need theorycrafters for this, you can max out your artifact weapon.

:-( That sucks

[Deleted]

You don't even need theorycrafters for this, you can max out your artifact weapon.

It takes time to max the artifact, so there's still need for theorycrafting when you don't have full points. For example if the artifact is gated to take 4 months to get full points, you'd go through most of the first tier without having full artifact power. They've also said there may be new artifact abilities with each new raid tier, so you'd have to take time to theorycraft again with each new tier before you get max points again.

[Nyel]

It takes time to max the artifact, so there's still need for theorycrafting when you don't have full points. For example if the artifact is gated to take 4 months to get full points, you'd go through most of the first tier without having full artifact power. They've also said there may be new artifact abilities with each new raid tier, so you'd have to take time to theorycraft again with each new tier before you get max points again.

Oh, I didn't know that they made a statement about adding new talents with new tiers - where did they state that?

[Deleted]

Seems like their will be 3 talent trees in Legion and somewhat removal of Glyphs.

I don't mind putting current abilities in tree, could be interesting.
But what I am worried about is that their removing a class identity from the mage, the way he avoids damage is quite defining for a mage......other classes have similiar abilities but it still feels Mage shines here, maybe because of the amount he has or combined with blink or the lack of other means.

And worried about them forcing the identity of mage as the stationairy class (pvp talents + Rune of Power). It used the be the most agile trickster and I hate the high melee uptime from cataclysm thats still present in pvp.
The stationairy thing makes me quit mage and thus wow prob. The high melee uptime makes me quit pvp again.....(quite sad because I really want to give it a try with all the new systems)

The only interesting stationairy is in League of Legends with the champion Xerath. But it's stupid to force that gameplay on all speccs especially if it's the best path. In order for it to be fun it becomes impossible to balance, it's either incredibly op or very taxing to use making it annoying (RoP).
http://gameinfo.euw.leagueoflegends....mpions/xerath/

[ComputerNerd]

Maybe so. But what about removing Taunt from everyone who isn't a tank? Ressurect from everyone who isn't a healer? Disease/Curse/Poison dispels from anyone who isn't a Healer?

How do you defend removal of utility like that, that has no compensation at all, no choice?

Aside from the talent changes the core rotation changes are just awful. Sublety and Windwalker especially.

Now is the time to voice displeasure over the changes we KNOW are not just oversights or data mined nonsense.
The class previews are what they chose to show us, and I am VERY unimpressed with those. Now that we see that the sample talents don't fix the issues we've been complaining about, now more than ever is the time we need to complain.

Lots dictate that the position of anyone disagreeing with you is indefensible purely because they disagree with you.
You can't provide a better argument, you just call someone out as being wrong because it is not your view that they share.
We get constant complaints about homogonisation, and when we get a move away from that people still complain for the sake of being the one to complain.
For some stupid reason that is deemed a cool thing to do.
This is making classes and specs more distinct, so they have less of a shared toolkit.

Blizzard give what "the players want" according to the community, and the community still whines.

[Detheavn]

I like how people are complaining about the artifact talent system, but were praising the old talent system, which essentially are the same

[Deleted]

I am huge hater of blizzard at all, but come on, what u expect? Artifact weapons to have 10 active skills + 10 passive that add even more stuff? Ofc 70% will be 6% crit, 5% dmg blablabla. How someone will cast 15 skills in rotation?

[Deleted]

Oh, I didn't know that they made a statement about adding new talents with new tiers - where did they state that?

I'm not sure which source it was from as the info is from several interviews, but it's in the wowhead info compilation here http://www.wowhead.com/news=248628/l...s-what-we-know

It will take months into the expansion to fill it out and it's power will continue to grow.

and

Artifacts will change with tiers to keep the game fresh, which means set bonuses do not need to be as game-changing.

[Nyel]

I am huge hater of blizzard at all, but come on, what u expect? Artifact weapons to have 10 active skills + 10 passive that add even more stuff? Ofc 70% will be 6% crit, 5% dmg blablabla. How someone will cast 15 skills in rotation?

Most artifact weapons don't even offer ONE active skill. That's disappointing. Other weapons offer 1 or 2 active skills (Shadow Priest e.g.).

[Cathfaern]

I have been expecting more than taking 5 usual class skills you got from leveling and turning them into "hundreds of new talents". Maybe it's just the Shaman that leaves me disappointed because the Shaman talents are underwhelming. Maybe other classes got better talents... but making usual skills to talents IS pathetic.

Lets do some math: there is 11 class (didn't count DH-s), 3 spec for each + guardian, so 34 specs. They stated that most talent will be spec specific. So if there is only 6 new talent for every spec, that means 204 new talent which is "hundreds of new talent"