Swedish government & Surveilance

[Deleted]

You realize that there are two cameras, a microphone and a GPS on your phone right?

I just want people to realise that you are giving powers that are VERY easily abused to any government to come. If you believe no one will ever abuse that, ok, but I am not willing to give my freedoms due to fear and to absolutely useless methods.

1) protest
2) don't buy a phone with said features
3) move country

Seriously all the government will find on my phone is a constant image of my ceiling or pocket, my location aka my room and occasionally me grumbling about the weather. I apologize I don't suffer paranoia

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Just off the top of my head i don't want to end up on some government "watch list" just because i frequented a right wing forum or watched certain you tube videos or whatever. It could effect many aspects of my life negatively. Future employment, security clearances, official office etc. It could even cause me to be under extra scrutiny every time i try to fly out of the country on business or vacation, triggering "random" searches and what not. The police could use computer and phone data as a tool to get a search warrant for whatever bullshit reason they want, close down political blogs, stifle free speech or outright bully persons with whom they quarrel in to obedience.

There are cases everyday where municipal governments bully private citizens with the aid of lawyers, abuse of power and outright corrupt practices. Giving these people more tools instead of forcing greater transparency and oversight is the opposite of what we should aim to do.

You also miss the point entierly. It's not about me specifically. It's about all the free people. Even if you and me never get affected in a negative way we can be pretty sure that thousands of people will get oppressed.

I only see guilty people getting oppressed

[Deleted]

I only see guilty people getting oppressed

That's a very comfortable worldview, that is until someone starts pointing their fingers at you.

[Deleted]

That's a very comfortable worldview, that is until someone starts pointing their fingers at you.

I don't do anything illegal so of course i'm comfortable

[Deleted]

Säpo=swedish secret police have misused their power by doing stupid/illegal stuff since the sixties they cant be trusted with this kind of power that this law would give they will get them selfs and the government in trouble again.

[Bakis]

Säpo=swedish secret police have misused their power by doing stupid/illegal stuff since the sixties they cant be trusted with this kind of power that this law would give they will get them selfs and the government in trouble again.

They also got partly reformed cos of that exact thing so that is a frail argument.
Nevertheless I also think that untill they can produce a need for it they should not be granted such rights.

[Deleted]

I don't do anything illegal so of course i'm comfortable

That's what all guilty people say. The data evidence we have collected against you clearly show malicious intent and anti social behavior. You will be brought in for questioning.

[Knolan]

1) protest
2) don't buy a phone with said features
3) move country

Seriously all the government will find on my phone is a constant image of my ceiling or pocket, my location aka my room and occasionally me grumbling about the weather. I apologize I don't suffer paranoia

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I only see guilty people getting oppressed

Yep, total paranoia, never ever has those information been used illegally:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_wa...%E2%80%9307%29
https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...89d_story.html
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...-claims-merkel

Never!!!

[Deleted]

That's what all guilty people say. The data evidence we have collected against you clearly show malicious intent and anti social behavior. You will be brought in for questioning.

So paranoia?

[Deleted]

So paranoia?

Are you a mental health professional?

[Deleted]

Yep, total paranoia, never ever has those information been used illegally:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_wa...%E2%80%9307%29
https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...89d_story.html
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...-claims-merkel

Never!!!

It was something that made me go meh

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Are you a mental health professional?

Well I just said I don't do anything illegal. You then alluded that the government will lie and arrest me anyway. That sounds like paranoia

[Knolan]

It was something that made me go meh

So, you think this won't be used illegally, when shown it has been you still don't care...

Talk about a hopeless discussion.

[Deleted]

So, you think this won't be used illegally, when shown it has been you still don't care...

Talk about a hopeless discussion.

Depends on the illegal act, the illegal acts regarding NSA didn't bother nor affect me, my family, friends or anybody of importance to me

[Knolan]

Depends on the illegal act, the illegal acts regarding NSA didn't bother nor affect me, my family, friends or anybody of importance to me

Until it does. You are consenting on giving them the power to do so.

Also, if the government decided to put everyone from a given ethnicity (that is not yours) in a concentration camp would you be fine if it? It doesn't affect you after all...

[Karlz0rz]

Oh well good. Then you wouldn't mind if the government installed cameras in your bedroom, toilet and everywhere else in your home? The government would promise not to look as long as they didn't suspect you of anything.

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Be careful what liberties you are willing to surrender in exchange for security. There is a price to pay.

I wouldn't mind at all. Because I don't do anything illegal. If they want to watch my pale ginger ass in the shower, by all means go ahead!
If the trade off is that we stop things like what happened in Paris, then I'm all for it!

Explain to me what kind of liberty I'm surrendering for this? I can still do EVERYTHING I am doing now, just with more security.
I see no price to pay. Unless, you know, you are one of those people that this will in fact affect . Are you one of those people?

[Deleted]

It was something that made me go meh

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Well I just said I don't do anything illegal. You then alluded that the government will lie and arrest me anyway. That sounds like paranoia

I was just illustrating a point. When you use these kind of mass surveillance techniques you get a lot of false positives and circumstantial evidence. The potential benefits doesn't outweigh the risks of abuse and false incrimination. And believe me, if the tools are there people will use them excessively. Who is and isn't suspect will be determined by a computer algorithm.

The Swedish intelligence agency helped the NSA install the surveillance equipment on our Internet backbones so that America could spy on German government officials and private citizens. Does that sound like the type of people you would trust to use this kind of power conservatively?

[Deleted]

I wouldn't mind at all. Because I don't do anything illegal. If they want to watch my pale ginger ass in the shower, by all means go ahead!

So, if someone broke into your home to watch you shower, you'd be perfectly fine with it? Not tell them to get out?

[Deleted]

I wouldn't mind at all. Because I don't do anything illegal. If they want to watch my pale ginger ass in the shower, by all means go ahead!
If the trade off is that we stop things like what happened in Paris, then I'm all for it!

Explain to me what kind of liberty I'm surrendering for this? I can still do EVERYTHING I am doing now, just with more security.
I see no price to pay. Unless, you know, you are one of those people that this will in fact affect . Are you one of those people?

Oh nothing much, you are only giving up one of your fundamental human rights that is privacy, recognized in the UN Declaration of Human Rights.

Tell me, what other human rights are you willing to give up?

[Knolan]

I wouldn't mind at all. Because I don't do anything illegal. If they want to watch my pale ginger ass in the shower, by all means go ahead!
If the trade off is that we stop things like what happened in Paris, then I'm all for it!

Explain to me what kind of liberty I'm surrendering for this? I can still do EVERYTHING I am doing now, just with more security.
I see no price to pay. Unless, you know, you are one of those people that this will in fact affect . Are you one of those people?

If this information leaks and the footage of your 7 years old son/daughter start trending on pedo sites, you still won't mind?

[Nachturnal]

Eh... I mean I would prefer not to, but I wouldn't mind.

[Mellomania]

I wouldn't mind at all. Because I don't do anything illegal. If they want to watch my pale ginger ass in the shower, by all means go ahead!
If the trade off is that we stop things like what happened in Paris, then I'm all for it!

Explain to me what kind of liberty I'm surrendering for this? I can still do EVERYTHING I am doing now, just with more security.
I see no price to pay. Unless, you know, you are one of those people that this will in fact affect . Are you one of those people?

It's pointless though, as those you actually want to catch are smart enough to not get caught by it anyways >_>