Right Wing Views

[Jambalam]

First off, hello, I've been lurking these forums for years but just got round to making an account today. I've seen a lot of political threads pop up on this board and no matter what it is I find it very interesting to see different peoples opinions. I'm from Scotland, we are a very left leaning country and I would probably consider myself a socialist. Personally I don't know anyone that has conservative right wing views and so I find it hard to understand what makes people veer to the right wing. I have always seen the right as being very selfish and, to some extent - evil. I don't mean any insult towards anyone's political views as I accept that everyone is different and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I truly struggle to understand WHY people believe in the selfish capitalist mindset of the right. In my mind everyone is equal, and people should be working together to improve the lives of the weak and the poor. I'm not looking for a fight, I would just like an open discussion to help me understand what makes people this way.

Thanks

[Rukh]

Hello!

I don't see your post ending up getting answered satisfactorily but good luck!

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

America's right and left are essentially the same. Really its all for show.

[Rukh]

America's right and left are essentially the same. Really its all for show.

That's not true. They have deep seated difference in wedge issues and I would say the source of beliefs comes from a different place. I would say that indicates different values, though I want to stress that we share a lot of the same values too, and both sides do care about their country, their friends, and citizens.

[Spectral]

If you're genuinely curious, I recommend reading alt-right blogs. You probably will not find their arguments particularly compelling, but if you read with an open mind, you'll likely discover that much like centrists and left-wingers, people on the political right genuinely believe that their ideas are best for the nation they belong to.

Also worth a mention is that "right wing" is so broad as to be almost meaningless. Are you referring to libertarian economic policy? Anti-immigration sentiment? Authoritarian policy? Fascism? Social conservatism? This things can go together, but it's not necessarily the case.

A good jumping off point for understanding other people's ideas might be to read Arnold Kling. Here's a summary of his Three Languages of Politics.

[Ghostpanther]

If you're genuinely curious, I recommend reading alt-right blogs. You probably will not find their arguments particularly compelling, but if you read with an open mind, you'll likely discover that much like centrists and left-wingers, people on the political right genuinely believe that their ideas are best for the nation they belong to.

Also worth a mention is that "right wing" is so broad as to be almost meaningless. Are you referring to libertarian economic policy? Anti-immigration sentiment? Authoritarian policy? Fascism? Social conservatism? This things can go together, but it's not necessarily the case.

A good jumping off point for understanding other people's ideas might be to read Arnold Kling. Here's a summary of his Three Languages of Politics.

Good point. I consider myself a right wing liberal. lol! Which for some is a contradiction.

[p291u]

selfish capitalist mindset of the right.

Capitalism is not unique to the right. Most people, even those who are right wing and/or tend to be more capitalistic, are not extremely successful and yet still prefer and/or advocate for this system. It has nothing to do with being selfish, it's about people enjoying the fruits of their own labor. In fact, if we wanted to talk about selfishness, socialism takes the cake here; people want stuff taken from others and distributed to themselves.

[Hraklea]

I truly struggle to understand WHY people believe in the selfish capitalist mindset of the right. In my mind everyone is equal, and people should be working together to improve the lives of the weak and the poor. I'm not looking for a fight, I would just like an open discussion to help me understand what makes people this way.

Thanks

See, the problem is that you're judging the right wing over the premisses of the left wing. Capitalist believe the economy works differently than socialists do. The interaction between supply and demand, the interaction between saving and investments, how people create expectations about the future...

You can't judge capitalism under a socialist model. That's, for the lack of a better word, ignorance. If you judge socialism under a capitalist lens, it also looks incredible selfish.

[Mentia]

First off, hello, I've been lurking these forums for years but just got round to making an account today. I've seen a lot of political threads pop up on this board and no matter what it is I find it very interesting to see different peoples opinions. I'm from Scotland, we are a very left leaning country and I would probably consider myself a socialist. Personally I don't know anyone that has conservative right wing views and so I find it hard to understand what makes people veer to the right wing. I have always seen the right as being very selfish and, to some extent - evil. I don't mean any insult towards anyone's political views as I accept that everyone is different and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I truly struggle to understand WHY people believe in the selfish capitalist mindset of the right. In my mind everyone is equal, and people should be working together to improve the lives of the weak and the poor. I'm not looking for a fight, I would just like an open discussion to help me understand what makes people this way.

Thanks

I work for what I have and didn't receive handouts to get where I am today. I don't want to give up part of my hard earned money to give handouts to lazy people. In America we all have the same opportunities to succeed but many are either too lazy to push themselves or get caught up with the wrong people who have negative influences on them. Sure, there are people who genuinely deserve help and I am happy to have my tax money go to them but there are just far too many who abuse these systems. There is nothing "evil" about that.

[Revi]

I don't know, I don't think it's hard to understand if you work from the assumption they people ultimately get what they deserve.
If you become rich, it's because you've deserved it through whatever means. Be it hard work, ingenuity, social or professional talent etc.
If you are poor, it's because you deserve it. Bad choices, poor work ethics, failure to build connections or be original, lack of talent, etc.

By extension, people who inherit these positions do so justifiably, because their parents worked hard to be able to put their children in such a position, so their parents deserve what they worked for.
If you get sick and can't afford it, that's a result of your choices.
If you break the law in even a harmless way and go to jail for 10 years, you deserve it because you were aware of the consequences and chose to do so anyway. It was your free choice that led you there.

You could make the argument that all these things (consequence for your actions) can still exist in a left-wing socialist system, but the conservative right also tend to view social stability and economic stability as a lot more fragile than the left-wing. Which shows in things like not wanting to bind to expenses for the state that could be unsustainable, not wanting to spend too much, wanting to preserve gun rights, being skeptical of immigration, wanting rather rigid social roles. etc. etc.

TLDR: You get what you deserve, and we're not as safe and stable as you might think. This seems to be the foundation for a lot of it. And then of course with a us vs. them system like the US, you get a lot of opinions and values tacked on that don't really make much sense, but people adopt it because it's what their group believes.

[Frogguh]

Coming here to get a fair analysis of right wing views and motivations would be like going to the Rush Limbaugh forums to get a fair analysis of left wing views. It just won't happen here.

[Rukh]

I work for what I have and didn't receive handouts to get where I am today. I don't want to give up part of my hard earned money to give handouts to lazy people. In America we all have the same opportunities to succeed but many are either too lazy to push themselves or get caught up with the wrong people who have negative influences on them. Sure, there are people who genuinely deserve help and I am happy to have my tax money go to them but there are just far too many who abuse these systems. There is nothing "evil" about that.

Except you know, the culture you were raised in, the public roads and infrastructure to boost an economy you took part in, the national defense that protects you, your gender and race having it place in the culture.

But besides all the handouts you had, you totally had no handouts, so good job!

[Arthas242]

America's right and left are essentially the same. Really its all for show.

YES AND NO!


the politicians them self ARE ALL THE SAME and do it for show.

the people they pander to are not...........

this is why trump is doing so well with the right because he is a outsider, he is even pulling some from the center left because to be honest most of his policies are a hybrid between both parties *other than immigration*
*aka lowering all taxes for everyone but making a progressive tax while also cutting spending, if i remember right any single pays no income tax to $25k 50k for couples, and when you start getting taxed, it is only after that initial number at 5 or 10% i forget, and then it jumps up in 5% intervals for different incomes all only taxing that amount after the stated amount capping at 25%, republicans just want tax cuts, democrats just want to tax the rich more, technically this does both, everyone pays less, but the rich pay more then average joe*

do i like trump? no...... but do i want to vote for the same stupid people in office who only look out for their check book and power?

is trump a asshat? YES, but he does get what he wants.

is he my first choice? NO Ted/Ben are, but i would vote trump over anyone else.

DO ALL POLITICIANS ON BOTH SIDES SAY WACKY THINGS? yes they all do! it is called pandering.....

[Hraklea]

I work for what I have and didn't receive handouts to get where I am today. I don't want to give up part of my hard earned money to give handouts to lazy people. In America we all have the same opportunities to succeed but many are either too lazy to push themselves or get caught up with the wrong people who have negative influences on them. Sure, there are people who genuinely deserve help and I am happy to have my tax money go to them but there are just far too many who abuse these systems. There is nothing "evil" about that.

And this is exactly the kind of people that makes capistalists look bad.

[Mentia]

Except you know, the culture you were raised in, the public roads and infrastructure to boost an economy you took part in, the national defense that protects you, your gender and race having it place in the culture.

But besides all the handouts you had, you totally had no handouts, so good job!

These were all paid for by my parents taxes, and now my taxes. Thanks though.

[Endus]

A good starting point for this is to recognize that your own views are based upon certain precepts that you believe in pretty strongly. To give the views of your opponents proper consideration, you have to recognize that their views are based on different precepts, that they believe in equally strongly.

The simplest difference is that of equality in general; left-wing viewpoints generally see greater equality as a "good thing", socially. Right-wing viewpoints generally see inequality as either an inevitability of circumstance, or even a desirable outcome as it fosters ambition and encourages those on the lower end to strive to improve their lot.

I might disagree with right-wing views, as a socialist in principle myself, but I acknowledge their position. I'm fine with their outlook as long as 1> it's not objectively harmful, and 2> it's consistent with their own precepts and the facts we know to be true. I don't expect their views to match up with my own precepts, but when you run into things like climate change denial being espoused as a political point by right-wing types, pretty much because left-wing types have acknowledged that it's a problem, I will not accept that as a valid political difference, because it's an attempt to establish your own separate "facts". Debating what we should do about climate change, that's political, and I don't expect agreement there, but we bloody well should be able to agree that a fact is a fact.

[Mentia]

And this is exactly the kind of people that makes capistalists look bad.

What's wrong with saying people abuse welfare systems?

[p291u]

What's wrong with saying people abuse welfare systems?

Doesn't fit into his narrative.

[Jambalam]

I work for what I have and didn't receive handouts to get where I am today. I don't want to give up part of my hard earned money to give handouts to lazy people. In America we all have the same opportunities to succeed but many are either too lazy to push themselves or get caught up with the wrong people who have negative influences on them. Sure, there are people who genuinely deserve help and I am happy to have my tax money go to them but there are just far too many who abuse these systems. There is nothing "evil" about that.

The problem I have is that I don't believe everyone does have the same opportunities to succeed. If you are born into poverty then you may not be able to afford a good education or have the same connections you would have otherwise. In Scotland we have free health care and university education which I am incredibly proud of and I am happy to be paying tax in order to contribute to changing lives. Do you think every poor person in the world is poor because they are lazy?

[Endus]

I work for what I have and didn't receive handouts to get where I am today. I don't want to give up part of my hard earned money to give handouts to lazy people.

In the USA, unless your family is independently wealthy, you did "receive handouts". Did you go to public school? That's a "handout". Just by way of example.

Sure, there are people who genuinely deserve help and I am happy to have my tax money go to them but there are just far too many who abuse these systems. There is nothing "evil" about that.

Welfare fraud is a vanishingly tiny issue, and left-wingers don't support it either.