How hard would sub-races actually be to make...if

[ravenmoon]

for example; sub-races were like hero classes, starting in the zone and level you meet them in the world rather than all at level one? With maybe just one epic introductory quest that ties in with their story and your choice to join the horde rather than having to make a new starting zone or phasing a zone.

In fact.. for blizzard to do this properly and not just throw in skin option 15-20 and say voila brown orcs.. what sort of effort do you reckon it will take?


---TLDR ---
Here I will compile as much as I can from your responses.

Most sub-races are already in the game. They have models, customizations that often look very cool -- how much does blizzard have to actually do? Well


1. Starter zones - a lot of work for new races, for sub-races - simply start in the zone the group is at, at the level of that zone cuts out a lot of work. Add one epic quest to fill in the blanks. So much easier right

2. Models: Some sub-races are very close to the original race that has new models -
a) Create new colouring skins
b) new race appropriate customisable features: e.g. tattoos for wildhammer dwarves
c) no need for new animations of facial rigs here - already in the base model = huge amount of work avoided

Some sub-races are altogether different and would require something:
e.g. Broken, Vrykul, Wretched, Yaungol (if playable)
Whiles I do not expect these to usually appear as sub-races, some of them would be a great idea. The models are already in the game, but they'd need a fairly intensive do over. = huge amount of work - this is where it is like making a new race as emotes/ animations/ facial rigs will all have to be done

a) Whiles I would largely avoid doing this, some are too important or good to pass up. e.g. Broken & Vrykul for starters.
b) Others can be re-interpreted. E.g. Wretched - the sunwell is back, wretched could actually look like rough blood elves instead, like how nightborne are to night elves, thinner, scruffier looking, like a full scruffy beard - a bit unkempt, a bit like an addict. This way they can use the blood elf model base and rig making it easier to do
c) Others also can be based off existing models - forsaken vampire - could actually use the undead face rigs, and the body just straightened up forsaken, with whole flesh. he doesn't have to be meaty, he would be as skinny as the undead, but no bare bones, upright and normal looking flesh, animations used are forsaken animations or blood elf ones, so you don't have to re-model everything , saving a lot of work.



3. Character Creation UI.
This will need some creative thinking: I suggest:
a) Race group icons are still the same, except every time you click on one,..rather than having 1 character model, you will have a model for each sub race:
e.g. Clicking on Forsaken will give you an undead human, an undead elf and a vampire human.
the highlighted one would be larger than the others, with its class selection to the side, you can click on the others and they would become highlighted instead with their

you can then click on the one you want and it then come the cu
i) Clicking on a race then gives you the choice of which sub-group to pick
ii) clicking on a race gives the normal character creation of the main group - but a new tab with Icons of the faces of the sub races at the


4. Options
a) Class selection is easy: it just appears on the side column like it does now and it corresponds to the race you have selected, switch to Dark Iron dwarf you have a different selection
b) Emotes/voice overs - this is entirely discretionary - I think it should depend on the race, some sub-races can sound different from their main race and some can sound identical - animaitons will match
c) Racials - this may just sometimes be slight variations of the main race, e.g. a High elf may not necessarily have mana-tap. The equivalent ability is very similar to one which one of the existing races already have, making it have no real balance issues or headaches.



I think like this... Sub-races can be pretty good, and pretty fast produced. Some will take longer, but the longest part will be the artwork of the models with huge time saved because you don't have to create new starter zones and because you're using the rigs of most of the existing race except in a some rare but vital cases like Broken and Vrykul.

New sub-race will be expected too, blizzard do this with every expansion, so it's not as hard as you think..it's part of the "newness" of the whole thing. If they care to just make sure the new groups have everything in place to make them playable at later date, they save a lot of extra work later.

List of Potential Sub-races:

• Human: - Vrykul, Half elf, Kul'tirasian
• Orc: Mag'har, Blackrock, Dragonmaw etc
• Night Elf: Highborne, Nightborne, Nightfallen, Half-Cenarian [NEW]
• Troll: Forest Troll, Jungle Troll, Ice Troll
• Dwarf: Earthern, Dark Iron, Wildhammer, Iron
• Forsaken: Darkfallen, Vampire human
• Gnome: Leper, Mechagnome, Half-cyborg [NEW]
• Tauren: Taunka, Highmountain, Yaungol
• Draenei: Broken, Eredar
• Blood Elf: San'layan, Wretched, High Elf
• Goblin: Gilgoblin, Coal goblin , Hobgoblin
• Worgen: Nelf Worgen [new], HElf Worgen [new], Blood Worgen
• Panderan: (not sure)

[Lochton]

List of Potential Sub-races:

• Human: - Vrykul, Half elf, Kul'tirasian
  - Vrykul; isn't really I thing I would expect to see from the Alliance, they hardly wish to work together.
  - Under human, Half Elves isn't really needed, you could plot in High Elves here as they are a thing that should be available on both sides after all. A half elf would actually be considered weak by many of the other elven.
  - "Kul'tirasian"; isn't a sub-race, but a faction. That is like people on RP servers going, "I'm a lordaeronian warrior", or "Gilnean Rogue" - technically they are wrong if considered as sub-races. They are kingdoms/factions.
  
• Orc: Mag'har, Blackrock, Dragonmaw etc
  Most of them makes sense, except a lot of changes to make starting zones.
  
• Night Elf: Highborne, Nightborne, Nightfallen, Half-Cenarian [NEW]
  Highborne; Already in the game, technically. Mages were considered this.
  Nightborne Vs. Nightfallen; Then same chapter as Blood Elves and Wretched. Why would you have an unstable race who is basically the danger of another race to be at same mercy? Even this would demand two different leveling zones, or complete different story lines to set them out of Suramar.
  Half-Cenarian(?); If I recall, this isn't a sub-race.
  
• Troll: Forest Troll, Jungle Troll, Ice Troll
  Not really any differences between these races, other than what Loa they follow, and a few tones of color. And the basic that most ice trolls are still considered hostile.
  
• Dwarf: Earthern, Dark Iron, Wildhammer, Iron
  (I take 'Iron' wasn't ment to be there.)
  - Earthern; Would be doable, though corrections to Deepholm and connections to the upper world would be needed to be written.
  - Dark Iron; Still an uneasy subject. Moira only controls half of the faction. Though, could easily see mutliple levels of zones within Black Rock for them.
  - Wildhammer; Questing would like others, need a different section of phased zones.
  
• Forsaken: Darkfallen, Vampire human
  - Darkfallen; This is basically San'layan for you as well. They count under the same 'faction'.
  - Vampiric human; Unsure (Would it be Horde or Alliance?), unknown (Would it be able to look different from what is possible?).
  
• Gnome: Leper, Mechagnome, Half-cyborg [NEW]
  - Leper; Not doable, you are the threat of all life, and a 'Kill-On-Sight' for any Gnome who would've loved all Gnomekind.
  - Mechagnome is doable though means you have not been inflicted with 'The curse of flesh' leaving your starting zone to be somewhere in a Titan location still (Or underground (further than Gnomeregan)).
  - Doesn't really make sense, wouldn't help much visable change between that and the normal race.
  
• Tauren: Taunka, Highmountain, Yaungol
  - All of them viable, though starting zones for all three are going to be difficult to set up.
  
• Draenei: Broken, Eredar
  - Broken; This is something that makes sense, though it limits your race from having Palaidns and Priests, it could be viable but with difficulty to recreate an outland zone to be low zone before actually being sent back to normal content.
  - Eredar; technically, I don't approve of this. I know the basic lore, but also know that most who call themselves Eredar still, are still working for the bad people.
  
• Blood Elf: San'layan, Wretched, High Elf
  - San'layan; these are still the enemies of all factions, and aren't considered to be even close to an ally.
  - Wretched; Hungering for magic, you are addicted to a source that could've been your death. Having the Wretched would be an insult to other races, first of all. As well as being a danger to basically any magical creature.
  - High Elven; Difficult to locate as what they should be. They aren't fully trusted, nor shunned by the Sin'dorei, so it is an option. Of course they should count as a Sub-race for the Humans as well.
  
• Goblin: Gilgoblin, Coal goblin , Hobgoblin
  Gilgoblin; would be difficult to explain how you can safely be traversing the waters of Vashj'ir just to loose out on land for having to follow the rest of the leveling.
  Coal Goblin; Fan creation, I don't think Blizzard has the option of wanting to develop that yet.
  Hobgoblin; You are quite limited here. Most hobgoblins can't even use advanced tactics or magic, it would be a sub-race limited to being a Warrior/Bait.
  
• Worgen: Nelf Worgen [new], HElf Worgen [new], Blood Worgen
  - Blood Elven and High Elven Worgens are out of question. They were both not there when the gates were shut and hell went loose, maybe a small chance of High Elves.
  - Night Elf Worgen corruption has a little higher chance than the two other elven races, but only a little as they have had dealings with the artifact before.
  
• Panderan: (not sure)
  - Technically all getting the same turtle deal. Besiddes, wouldn't be many zones we can call starting zones without having to be shipped away from Pandaria.

Well, each race are different and some are more or less locked by what they are, or where they are from.

Of course, the talk of leveling zone was more as an "what if they were added without laziness". Else, could just be recolors for the ones doable.

[Ama]

hmm,

Humans don't have sub-races. They have factions, none of which is big enough to supply their own version of humans. Except Gilneas, but we already have that, including unique starting experience. And if we are to consider vrykul to be a part of human lineage, then its the other way around. Besides, if blizz ever adds vrykul as Alliance, sub-race or not, Horde guys will be pissed. And we have enough faction imbalance as it is.

Dwarves. Dark Iron dwarves and Wildhammer dwarves, yes, please. Everything else, like earthen is bullshit, sorry. Once again, as with vrykul for humans, earthen are actually dwarven predecessors, and have no place in current world. Making them just so there is an option? I hope not.

Gnomes. Don't need any. Leper gnomes are basically 'evil faction'. Irradiated and toxic. Dying breed.

Night elves. It enough that some of them can turn into animals.

Draenei. Don't have any sub-races. Eredar is what they used to be, and the remaining eredar are evil and serve Legion. Broken are dying breed. I wouldn't mind more horn styles and tentacles though.

Orcs. Mag'har and green ones. Pretty much all azerothian orcs are green. There is no need for dragonmaw or whatever. Its the same as with human factions. Besides, not all of them are aligned with the Horde. Mag'har will need new starting experience, but I'd want that for sure.

Trolls. Forest trolls are kinda different, but every other tribe, possible aligned with the Horde will be fine with just skins recolours.

Goblin. Hobglins, gilgoblins? no. just no. Gilgoblins look similar to regular ones, but they serve Azshara I think? and Hobgoblins is just way too much different

Forsaken! this is where subraces could really shine. Right now all forsaken are all humans of Lordaeron. But it would be cool, if we can choose other races from Alliance as well. I mean isn't it possible that some elves, dwarves or even gnomes were settled in Lordaeron during plague? Vampiric humans? Wtf is that? no, please.

Worgen, are basically human werewolfs. Don't need any subraces.

Pandaren. Don't have any. Don't need any.

Point is - not every race need to have sub-races. It isn't some major feature, that everyone should experience. It's a flavor bonus. Another way to customize your character.

[Kantoro]

Make a Murloc race, charge $25 in the store to switch, you make at least $100 off me, instantly.

[Schmilblick]

The usual phrase "it will cost us xxx thing" and it's true, just look at how much cost us the models rework.

[Lillyth]

It isnt hard, they would technically not need their own starter zones since the alliances are pretty strong between the subraces by now as well.

Blizzard just doesnt want to do it, even if its possible.

[ChronoSul]

Probably could add the sand trolls too since the troll us races would really be just a color change mostly

[Queen of Hamsters]

I want playable Dragonmaw and brown orcs SO badly...I'd shell out money for the first character service in 2+ years if I could make my main a Dragonmaw with tattoos and shit...

[primalmatter]

The ones that use the same model are easy but some of those races would require massive amounts of new models being made for armor... it is quite a bit of work I imagine unless they have a development tool that helps out with it. Even then it is still a lot of models

[Mystile]

Well, each race are different and some are more or less locked by what they are, or where they are from.

Of course, the talk of leveling zone was more as an "what if they were added without laziness". Else, could just be recolors for the ones doable.

Hey man, lets not quote the entire OP as the first response to give three sentences worth of opinion.

[Lochton]

Hey man, lets not quote the entire OP as the first response to give three sentences worth of opinion.

Hey, maybe you should take a look at the quote first? And didn't quote the entire OP either.

[ravenmoon]

The usual phrase "it will cost us xxx thing" and it's true, just look at how much cost us the models rework.

i wouldn't be surprised if they charge you for new sub-races.

Sub-races could be one of those "skin features" from games like HotS - and to add them you need to buy them,

Individual Sub-race - $5
Full racial group -$10
Full Sub race unlock - $50

So if you wanted:
High Elf
Nightbourne
Dark Iron Dwarf
Amani Forest Troll
Vrykul
Mag'har orc with Iron horde customizations

etc etc

you pay.

You get the race at whatever levels they start
You get their class selection etc

And you're good to go.