Legion - Artifact weapons and RP

[The Madgod]

No need to apologize, everyone has their opinions. I was not here to bash blizz, but I DO have love/hate relationship with them Been playing for 11 years, I've seen good and bad stuff from them. I mentioned blizz only because... well they are makers of this game, if they allow time travel/AU and stuff like that, so maybe we can too. So if someone comes to me and says "duuuude look what sword I got from bronze dragon or duuude look what staff I got from my AU visit" - I can roll with that. I've met few ppl who can write a 600p book about their starting zone adventure, sadly I'm not one of those ppl, so my rp standarts are a bit lower than yours

Be fair I've been RPing for a very long time. A good chunk of that was in a guiding, teaching role for the community. Stuff like that, to me, smells of Mary Suedom and plot breaking for the sake of making one's character more interesting, though ironically in a very superficial way, as your character would still be blasé. It's the item which would make them more 'interesting,' rather than the intrinsic value of the character.

But at the same time... if you know and don't care... no skin off my nose. Just be aware of which circles care and which don't.

And I have a question for you: how YOU gonna explain it? - Your weapon and seeing all other artifacts? :P You cant just ignore all of them

Well I'm probably just going to have the model for the Brewmaster keg staff and call it my walking staff with a keg on it. Force it to be generic. As for everyone else, I actually can ignore them all! Every part of Warcraft is something that any other player can do. That includes boss kills, questlines, things like garrisons... so much of WoW's story, one-off quests and boss kills, are presented as the significant work of just one person, or a group of 5 to 25/40. And yet, there are far more people who have accomplished these feats than could ever possibly be justified in RP. You could never fit the number of people who have bested the Lich King on the platform you fight him on, for example. When there are many many more roleplayers out there, thinking of how to rationalize all of this becomes an impossibility.

So the truly good roleplayers ignore it. They see the quests they do as the backdrop from which backstory emerges. The boss kills are rendered taboo for players to claim and thus are performed by some group of anonymous adventurers and heroes. While my Brewmaster might not be the Commander on Draenor, she could still have participated as a soldier if I wanted her to. As a member of the "Sea of faces," or in layman's words, as a character who could be interchangeable or even removed from the plot entirely without any change to the narrative.

It'll be the same with artifacts.

[Azgraal]

So Madgod, what's your opinion on someone who you see wielding this:



And they state is just an old sword they have who might have been tainted with fel energy (let's assume the player in question is not roleplaying a traditional paragon of virtue paladin). Would that be acceptable for you, provided the explanation makes sense and the player doesn't try to make it more than any other "regular joe's" weapon?

I'm just asking out of curiosity. I've been roleplaying a lot with my paladin lately, and I'm thinking about trying to integrate the "non-artifact" artifact into my set, as come legion I had already written a huge character development to take place when 7.0 hits.

And we all know RP is always the funnier and more rewarding if those whom we engage in RPing enjoy our personna as much as we do.

[The Madgod]

So Madgod, what's your opinion on someone who you see wielding this:

And they state is just an old sword they have who might have been tainted with fel energy (let's assume the player in question is not roleplaying a traditional paragon of virtue paladin). Would that be acceptable for you, provided the explanation makes sense and the player doesn't try to make it more than any other "regular joe's" weapon?

I'm just asking out of curiosity. I've been roleplaying a lot with my paladin lately, and I'm thinking about trying to integrate the "non-artifact" artifact into my set, as come legion I had already written a huge character development to take place when 7.0 hits.

And we all know RP is always the funnier and more rewarding if those whom we engage in RPing enjoy our personna as much as we do.

The Ashbringer is a tricky beast, but with that variant I'd say probably. Though it'd be more believable if they claimed they got it off a Scourge Death Knight or a demon of the Legion. Just so long as its value is personal, rather than it be some legendary blade of great power (that the player made up).

[The Penguin]

Hypothetical Paladin: "Of course my sword looks like Ashbringer!! It is one. No, not Tirion's. I was with the Scarlet Crusade once upon a time before they became insane. I've read Timolain's notes. I plumbed a cave to find them, scattered amongst slimes and undead. I studied the arts of Blacksmithing under Ironus Coldeye. I even fished up a Scourgestone from Stratholme's icy waters, following a rumor given to me by agents of the Shen'drelar. This Scourgestone was transformed by the Light's blessing into a Holy Mightstone, which forms the basis of the blade.

By the Light's blessing, the corrupt has become sacred. So tell me, do you doubt that I who have forged weapons for many a man could not infuse the Light's blessings into a blade? The weapon's appearance is calculated to evoke fear in the hearts of the wicked. There will be many Ashbringers, and I will be one of them. My blade is a homage to Lordaeron, and to the Banshee Queen. I am coming for you."

[Ratyrel]

As long as you don't see a blatant Ashbringer with the default skin, everything can be explained as being just a cool weapon, but not trully powerful like an artifact would be.

Since there is a quest explanation for why you have the ashbringer, why isn't it acceptable to use that? I get what Madgod says about the sea of faces and there is value in that for RP, but something like acquiring the ashbringer for a paladin provides all kinds of avenues for story-telling about worthiness, burden of expectation, failing faith etc. Artefacts don't have to be simple power increases and excuses for mary sueism. They can of course be transmogged into rusty dagger #345 and simply ignored, but imo that's passing up an opportunity.

[Treno]

I admit artifacts and some of the weapon changes have posed a challenge for me keeping my characters consistent with what they're using. While I don't RP with other people, I keep notes of what each of my character's roles are in the narrative at the time. None of my characters use very famous weapons anyway, though that came mostly out of aesthetics.

I haven't explicitly addressed my Paladin yet, but I've run into a similar issue with My DK switching to DW and utilizing the shards of Frostmourne. I think it's totally acceptable to RP as the owner of a famous weapon in the right context. Long story short, my DK is using another pair of swords with lore significance to him as a base for reforging Frostmourne into the Frost DK artifact.

[Deleted]

Since there is a quest explanation for why you have the ashbringer, why isn't it acceptable to use that? I get what Madgod says about the sea of faces and there is value in that for RP, but something like acquiring the ashbringer for a paladin provides all kinds of avenues for story-telling about worthiness, burden of expectation, failing faith etc. Artefacts don't have to be simple power increases and excuses for mary sueism. They can of course be transmogged into rusty dagger #345 and simply ignored, but imo that's passing up an opportunity.

I'd say it's fine in small group RP where others are okay with that being a thing.

It's not okay to force it as some kind of server lore because it's gunna piss off a lot of people, quite aside from the fact that a LOT of RPers just... don't have the skill to pull it off. I'm sorry if that sounds a bit mean, but it's kinda true. x)

Basically, if you RP with a circle of friends and they're all fine with you getting this super cool thing (I have a friend like that actually), it should be fine. If you come to the Cathedral District of Stormwind being like "YOOOOOO LOOK AT MY REFORGED FROSTMOURNE...S. FROSTMOURNES!" then... uh... yeaaaaaah, that's just horrendous.

UNLESS your character is full of shit of course.

[Deleted]

Gosh it's been like 3 years since I've had serious RP in a large group...or even longer now, 5 even cos that was Cataclysm when most of my friends stopped playing and I don't like joining new groups :<

Buuut anyway....when it comes to artifacts, do you HAVE to rp that these legendary weapons are yours? As others suggested, you could pretend they are just replicas or...sub-weapons, similar power to the original but not quite as strong?

Druid could be quite easy, that's a matter of you have been imbued with great power and therefore your form has become celestial/corrupt by Nightmare/ something similar.

As for Ashbringer/Doomhammer all the usual, do you really HAVE to RP with your weapons on? Everytime I RPed in the past I put on clothes for the occasion, I never mogged them or anything cos playing the game is seperate to my RP life you know? And I always did the same with weapons, or took them off completely as talking in a bar doesn't involve my frosty great axe in my hand =p

So, why not keep them separate from your RP story? Use the weapons you always have or even transmog your artifact because you can. And if you don't want to do that and you feel the weapon is a part of your story, then just say it's a sister weapon or something. That's how I feel. OR EVEN you could stretch it and that within your RP group/guild maybe 1 person of each class/spec HAS THE ACTUAL WEAPON and it's just between yourselves and not world RP? Me and my friends made up some crazy shit but it was for only in our group and not pushed upon other RP groups, so it was more private story.

Do that.

[Lordk0z]

Here's my handwave.

After SITUATIONNOTFOUND and Tirion gives someone the Ashbringer, that person, who is not me, commissions multiple blades in it's likeness for champions of the silver hand, as no one single hero would be enough to inherit such a legacy.

BAM! Done, even based off of what they did with Uther's hammer, except slightly more pragmatic.

[Deleted]

Here's my handwave.

After SITUATIONNOTFOUND and Tirion gives someone the Ashbringer, that person, who is not me, commissions multiple blades in it's likeness for champions of the silver hand, as no one single hero would be enough to inherit such a legacy.

BAM! Done, even based off of what they did with Uther's hammer, except slightly more pragmatic.

Mind you, with us technically having full access to AU draenei tech now, this is very plausible. Essentially commission a bunch of Light-channeling foci from Draenor and mass-produce (weaker, but still impressive) Ashbringer replicas.

[The Madgod]

Since there is a quest explanation for why you have the ashbringer, why isn't it acceptable to use that? I get what Madgod says about the sea of faces and there is value in that for RP, but something like acquiring the ashbringer for a paladin provides all kinds of avenues for story-telling about worthiness, burden of expectation, failing faith etc. Artefacts don't have to be simple power increases and excuses for mary sueism. They can of course be transmogged into rusty dagger #345 and simply ignored, but imo that's passing up an opportunity.

It's largely as Lokann said. Such is fine and great if you're in a closed space where everyone is absolutely okay with it where your RP goes into a completely different space than others, but the moment you start engaging with the public with such a character, it's going to be considered a mary sue by the nature of the fact that nobody is ever going to take it seriously, no matter how well-written it is. That's just how it works, there's a taboo on claiming unique events or items for yourself.

It's like his dwarf death knight, right? Lokann plays this character, intentionally mind you, as someone who claims to have killed the lich king, etc. He's constantly called on it and people consider this character to be trash. Well, he IS trash, but he's proving a point while doing so quite intentionally. This character is actually quite brilliantly written... it's just that such writing is satirical in nature and people don't appreciate it while actually in-game and engaging with them, as it breaks taboos.

[OIS]

I thought the game would use phasing to make you feel like you're the sole wielder of an artifact. Kind of like garrison followers. Your Vivianne would be seen as Warspear Magus to other players. And people would perceive your Ashbringer as... say, Dustbringer.

With that in mind, I don't approve of people role playing as wielders of these artifact. I enjoy a sense of mediocrity in role playing. Objects of great power, legendary weapons, uberstrong warriors and earth shattering kabooms breaks the immersion for me. When you play your own story, it's fine. But around others, I think people need to be humble.

[JTHMRulez1]

NO. They are not acceptable even as skins and people who roleplay have the originals should be ignored.

[Mysterymask]

Would the explanation of the weapon being a replica be a good explanation?

[Ratyrel]

It's largely as Lokann said. Such is fine and great if you're in a closed space where everyone is absolutely okay with it where your RP goes into a completely different space than others, but the moment you start engaging with the public with such a character, it's going to be considered a mary sue by the nature of the fact that nobody is ever going to take it seriously, no matter how well-written it is. That's just how it works, there's a taboo on claiming unique events or items for yourself.

It's like his dwarf death knight, right? Lokann plays this character, intentionally mind you, as someone who claims to have killed the lich king, etc. He's constantly called on it and people consider this character to be trash. Well, he IS trash, but he's proving a point while doing so quite intentionally. This character is actually quite brilliantly written... it's just that such writing is satirical in nature and people don't appreciate it while actually in-game and engaging with them, as it breaks taboos.

Thanks for the input, Lokann and Madgod. I agree satire also makes for interesting story telling

[pateuvasiliu]

How would you explain, in RP, that 2 different people have the Ashbringer?

[The Madgod]

Would the explanation of the weapon being a replica be a good explanation?

Personally I find it to be a bit of a cop-out and not too clever. I wouldn't mind it too badly if I found it in the wild, but as a guy what taught people roleplaying, I'd encourage you to find a more creative method to use the weapon model.

Thanks for the input, Lokann and Madgod. I agree satire also makes for interesting story telling

Sadly, I fear it tends to only be so outside of the first and second person. Yagmir isn't a character that other characters appreciate.

Like, at all.

[Deleted]

Sadly, I fear it tends to only be so outside of the first and second person. Yagmir isn't a character that other characters appreciate.

Like, at all.

Ye're talkin' gibberish laddy, errywun luvz Yagmir.

[Wondercrab]

There are no rules in RP. As long as the people you're playing with have no objections to what you're doing, everything's fine.
I've always viewed weapon skins as being a complete non-issue in and of themselves, since I'd imagine half the blacksmiths on Azeroth would be just itching to try and recreate their own replicas of these mythical legendary weapons that everyone tells stories about.

[The Madgod]

There are no rules in RP.

There's a LOT of rules in RP :P

meta-gaming, godmoding, various ways to handle combat fairly, continuity consistency, there's quite a few. Sure they do fluctuate between groups, but it's not something to dismiss outright. The point of the thread is to figure out how Artifacts are appropriate in roleplay... which necessitates assuming there are some conventions around such.