LGBT Rights in Africa ~ Opinions

[Techno-Druid]

At present most of Africa (with the notable exception being South Africa) presents some of the worst LGTB Rights in the world. In several countries homosexual men and women face heavy criminal penalties dependent on country. From as little to five years to execution. While I'm not implying everyone should be obligated socially to accept those of bisexual, homosexual and transsexual status, but can we as the West and East stand to criticize Russia when you habe Northern Nigerians men possibly being executed for their sexual orientation?

I'm no way saying that we should "save" the entire continent of Africa, but faster developing African nations like those of Ghana, Kenya and Nigeria imo could be potentially pressured into allowing more libertarian values for it's citizens.

[PC2]

more libertarian values for it's citizens.

That would be a good thing, either all adults can marry or the government should stay out of marriage entirely.

[Mormolyce]

False dichotomy. We can criticise Russia AND Africa.

We don't specifically call out Africa because we expect that kind of barbaric behaviour from them...

[lonely zergling]

We shouldn't mess with their cultures imho. They have to solve this problems on their own.

[Maxilian]

Well... its a matter of education, mainly...

[Graeham]

False dichotomy. We can criticise Russia AND Africa.

We don't specifically call out Africa because we expect that kind of barbaric behaviour from them...

People can but it's often counterproductive. It's always made more sense to go after the biggest culprits rather than the easiest pickings. Yet a lot of people will get outraged over something very trivial happening at home and relentlessly rally against it whilst doing very little to help those who are literally in a life or death predicament.

[Sunseeker]

It used to be that we (more developed nations) would pressure less developed ones into implementing social changes because it made for better markets. I mean, you can't exactly market gay-sex toys to a country that kills gay people! That's a whole market just being killed off right there. But we've lost the focus on improving other countries in order to make them better markets, and just taking them for all they're worth without really giving a damn to make them long-term trading partners.

Our economy is our (developed nations) most powerful asset, aside from our military(the USA's), but we generally let our corporations just run rampant and that loss of control over our own means we can't fully exercise the muscle of our economy against other nations.

[Mormolyce]

People can but it's often counterproductive. It's always made more sense to go after the biggest culprits rather than the easiest pickings. Yet a lot of people will get outraged over something very trivial happening at home and relentlessly rally against it whilst doing very little to help those who are literally in a life or death predicament.

Or to put it a different way, you can use someone far worse than yourself to deflect criticism and distract people from your own misdeeds.

[Techno-Druid]

False dichotomy. We can criticise Russia AND Africa.

We don't specifically call out Africa because we expect that kind of barbaric behaviour from them...

Agreed. I wouldn't go as far to put embargoes on these African countries, but pressure for legalisation and portrayal to citizens of these countries that lack education that LGBT peoples are productive and equally deserving of the right to live without extreme legal persecution.

[Powerogue]

We shouldn't mess with their cultures imho. They have to solve this problems on their own.

From what I've read it's us messing with their culture that caused a lot of this in the first place. Christian groups trying (and succeeding) in getting laws to criminalize homosexuality passed there and spreading false information. If anyone wants to fact check me (please do, I'm curious about all this) I learned it from the "God Loves Uganda" documentary.

[Nachturnal]

We shouldn't mess with their cultures imho. They have to solve this problems on their own.

This basically. As much as some would like the whole world to get along and allow people to live at their happiest, I'm just not a huge fan of changing another country's culture for the sake of unity or to "bring them up to this century's standards".

There's a very strong will and deeply embedded mentality in these country's that make it very very hard to change such views. It is unfortunate, but forcing change in regions as hostile as Africa can have very harmful repercussions. Here in the states, sure some people were being dramatic about the end of days among other sensational statements, but once the dust settles, we go about or lives.

Many African countries are heavily corrupt, have poor law enforcement and have a general populace that take matters into their own hands, let alone very religious and severely uneducated. All of this is a hot pot of destruction.

[PC2]

From what I've read it's us messing with their culture that caused a lot of this in the first place.

No, the vast majority of Africa has never been socially progressive even before intervention.

[Luxxor]

Expecting Africa to improve their treatment of LGBTs???

These is the same continent where albinos are killed because their organs are thought to be magical charms.

[mikeakanice]

Isn't this the part where people go "it's there culture they can do what they want", or is the hypocrisy on these forums still that powerful that it only matters if it effects something you personally believe in?

[Mormolyce]

From what I've read it's us messing with their culture that caused a lot of this in the first place. Christian groups trying (and succeeding) in getting laws to criminalize homosexuality passed there and spreading false information. If anyone wants to fact check me (please do, I'm curious about all this) I learned it from the "God Loves Uganda" documentary.

I don't know what tribal attitudes were like prior to the arrival of Christian and Muslim missionaries but suffice it to say they've done nothing to improve matters.

[Techno-Druid]

This basically. As much as some would like the whole world to get along and allow people to live at their happiest, I'm just not a huge fan of changing another country's culture for the sake of unity or to "bring them up to this century's standards".

There's a very strong will and deeply embedded mentality in these country's that make it very very hard to change such views. It is unfortunate, but forcing change in regions as hostile as Africa can have very harmful repercussions. Here in the states, sure some people were being dramatic about the end of days among other sensational statements, but once the dust settles, we go about or lives.

Many African countries are heavily corrupt, have poor law enforcement and have a general populace that take matters into their own hands, let alone very religious and severely uneducated. All of this is a hot pot of destruction.

I can see your points, but there are certainly more, should I say, progressive countries such as Ghana and Kenya that are close allies with the US, UK and West that could be urged to improve their LGBT rights.

Some African Nations are evolving, others are just lost causes that'll either destroy themselves or be conquered by China

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I don't know what tribal attitudes were like prior to the arrival of Christian and Muslim missionaries but suffice it to say they've done nothing to improve matters.

In Kenya (you guys are seeing my Kenya favoritism) some Nilotic tribes allowed arranged marriages between women in the same sense as ghost marriages in China, to unite families. West Africa has been significantly Islamic since Bantus were trading with Berbers.

[Hana Song]

Why should people get involved with that?

[Fullmetal89]

The only people that care about these sorts of issues are people in the West. Africans are more worried with every day survivable than trivial stuff like LGBT acceptance. Yes, I know some are being executed just for being gay. It's a hard place with hard people; life sucks in most of those countries. It's not just gays that suffer, everyone does. It's easy for us westerners to judge these people from our ivory towers and safe countries. We didn't have the misfortune of being born African in a country like Liberia for example. Once these countries are pushed out of the stone age and into modern day. When people begin to live more fulfilling lives and can worry about something other than daily survival. Then we might see some movement over there gaining ground.

[PC2]

Why should people get involved with that?

You shouldn't get involved in other cultures values unless you plan on allowing immigration from those societies. If people with very different values immigrate to your society, it is harder to integrate and they may grow to hate your society due to value differences. If they share your values and like your society then immigration isn't a problem.

[Spiffums]

Criticizing Africa would be racist.