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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    sorry when i downloaded it defaulted your calculation boxes as light gray i think it's excel version compatibility thing. Also yeah beyond scope. I have been away for a while so a lot of my old resources are dead along with a lot of people i used to play with (no relation). Anyway I only did the math on monks when they first came out and the rest I kept my own and never needed outside sources. So now that i am switching over i am looking at all the sources out there critically since i don't know those people and don't know what kind of math or justifications people use. You would be surprised the number of healers i used to have to coach back in the day. Wow do i really sound that old?

    TLR sucks coming back after year long breaks


    P.S Edit
    Actually now that i think of it an updated spell list is going to be a requirement in the new stat weights for legion with the core mechanics of the class changing we'll need an updated list to figure out which spells we will be using throughout the different levels of the expansion (gear wise).
    I also look forward to having a list like that to help figure out optimal rotations. And don't be shy. People think I've been doing this for a while so I must be infallible? Please, I'm human. If you think something may be incorrect please please please say so. If I'm unable to defend my logic, that's my own problem.

    - - - Updated - - -

    From "Mistweaving in Legion: 7.0 Discussion"
    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Entropy View Post
    Mastery is going to be insane. Here is a log of a shitty run, we kept crashing on first boss so we killed it and stopped.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...oss=0&source=3
    Nope, sadly that puts it at a weight of 0.56 to Crit's 0.8, when on even footing for DR (1000 rating of each stat). 1467 Mastery accounted for 62.5% of your 16.16% Mastery healing. That accounted for 10.11% of your healing, for +11.25% HPS. An equal amount of Crit would have increased your HPS by +12.70%.

    Though perhaps my reliability penalty of 90% for Mastery value is harsh; I made it so because it does not affect some of our more powerful spells that we'll be using in high-demand situations, such as EF. However, as you can see, it's worse even without the penalty.

    Mastery also loses value due to not affecting Revival or DPS.
    [More Mastery value discussion follows the quoted post.]

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, I bumped the reliability of most stats except Crit by ~2%. With the shift from (a) SooM+SM to Effuse, (b) Uplift+ReM with PoM to ReM & Vivify, etc., we have fewer, larger healing events, which makes Crit more subject to RNG.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Removed raid buffs, since they're apparently no longer in the game (?). The +5% Int from Leather Mastery is still in the spellbook, though it is not currently working on Alpha, so Int will still be slightly stronger than Spellpower.

    It appears Haste's rating was nerfed from 90 to 100 for Lv100 characters.
    Last edited by Geodew; 2015-12-06 at 11:15 AM.
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  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Reglitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    I also look forward to having a list like that to help figure out optimal rotations. And don't be shy. People think I've been doing this for a while so I must be infallible? Please, I'm human. If you think something may be incorrect please please please say so. If I'm unable to defend my logic, that's my own problem.

    - - - Updated - - -

    From "Mistweaving in Legion: 7.0 Discussion"


    [More Mastery value discussion follows the quoted post.]

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, I bumped the reliability of most stats except Crit by ~2%. With the shift from (a) SooM+SM to Effuse, (b) Uplift+ReM with PoM to ReM & Vivify, etc., we have fewer, larger healing events, which makes Crit more subject to RNG.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Removed raid buffs, since they're apparently no longer in the game (?). The +5% Int from Leather Mastery is still in the spellbook, though it is not currently working on Alpha, so Int will still be slightly stronger than Spellpower.

    It appears Haste's rating was nerfed from 90 to 100 for Lv100 characters.
    This might be able to help you for future scaling information.

  3. #23
    Cool, thanks
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  4. #24
    I did not fully understood the sheet but from what i can get Versatility is gonna be our best stat until we can reach mana cap? That's interesting.. Maybe with raid gear the crit will be better? or even Mastery if the scale is good who knows

  5. #25
    Actually Versatility will improve with gear unless they put it on more items relative to last expansion. Because of its scarcity, its DR has been very low all of WoD. Mastery and Haste are very subject to change right now. Haste's formula may still need some tweaking to be completely accurate, and the data we have on Mastery is very low atm.
    Last edited by Geodew; 2015-12-08 at 12:38 AM.
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  6. #26
    Thanks for all that sweet work, Geodew. If you need a hand for math checking (reasoning, formulas or computations), I'll gladly help.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramasseneige View Post
    Thanks for all that sweet work, Geodew. If you need a hand for math checking (reasoning, formulas or computations), I'll gladly help.
    Pretty sure Haste is incorrect atm. I think I know what's wrong, but if you can take an objective look and say what you think it should be, that would be helpful. I think the easier formulas like Int, Crit, Vers, etc. are correct. Mastery currently assumes the healing composition you achieved on the estimates page was achieved in the gear on the Main tab, so I need to change that to be separate. Otherwise, Mastery should be correct, but you can double-check me.
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  8. #28
    Updates:

    - Corrected one error of Haste, but still not quite finished with it
    - Added in Mastery's burst value component

    (Haste up, Mastery down)

    I think Mastery is supposed to be 8% spellpower per point, so I'll just say it's that for now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    This might be able to help you for future scaling information.
    So I checked this out, but the tertiary stat scalars appear messed up, so I feel like I should hold off on this. They're all just the same as crit. Unless they plan on changing the amount of rating you get depending on which stat you roll, it seems incorrect.
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  9. #29
    Updated for Build 20810

    - Mastery heals for 25% more (apparently)
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  10. #30
    @Geodew: Can you maybe help explain why there's such a large gap between the value of Mastery in 5 man and raids?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Potta View Post
    @Geodew: Can you maybe help explain why there's such a large gap between the value of Mastery in 5 man and raids?
    Well, right now we have no raid logs, and the Mastery weights are based about 90% on log parse data, so the Mastery weight for raids is a very rough estimate. Having said that, that very rough estimate is significantly lower because in raids we will have a lot more Essence Font casts. Its HPS and HPM are both excellent, so we'll be using EF any time there is enough AoE damage to warrant it, with breaks between casts to allow the HoT to tick before overwriting or extending it. This is in stark contrast with dungeon content, in which AoE damage is much less frequent or threatening or both, where Vivify will also often benefit partially from Enveloping's healing boost, and with more single-target spellcasts instead of EF casts comes more Mastery healing.
    Last edited by Geodew; 2015-12-21 at 08:14 AM.
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  12. #32
    Updated Haste formulas. The formulas should now be mostly correct, except:

    -I think the categorization of Enveloping Mist as a double-dipping HoT is not quite appropriate because generally we only cast a specific number of EMs in both raids and dungeons because of the type of healing it's used for, so really the GCDs gained from Haste should go towards other spells (whereas the double-dipping HoTs formula assumes you cast proportionally more of that HoT with gained GCDs, a la Rejuv).

    -I think the categorization of Essence Font could be improved for similar reasons. Currently the HoT portion is classified as a single-dipping HoT, like Renewing Mist, because Essence Font has a soft cooldown where casting it more often does not necessarily improve uptime, particularly during burst, and outside of burst, we'd probably only be able to use EF once before damage is healed up (to be confirmed in raid testing), which wouldn't change even with more Haste because the HoT has a fixed duration and we wouldn't want to use EF to extend the HoT if it will just make the HoT do a lot of overheal. I'll have to think about what I want to do for this to improve the fidelity of the equations.

    Except for these two relatively small aspects, the Haste formulas are complete for raiding. Since I'm now taking into account the nonlinear gains of Haste, its listed value increased on the Main page. I think due to the mis-classifications above, I'm slightly over-estimating its value, though, maybe by ~5%.

    (Note that the complexity of the formulas has increased drastically -- sorry, an explanation will be forthcoming once I'm finished with Haste for both raiding and 5-mans and artifact traits and talents and...)

    (TLDR Haste value up)

    Edit: Also need to handle ReM GCD breakpoints yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    the weights are based about 90% on log parse data
    Mastery* weights.
    Last edited by Geodew; 2015-12-21 at 02:39 PM.
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  13. #33
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    Wouldn't EM be kind of double dipping because the extra haste lets you fit in more spells during the 30/50% buff effect?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    Wouldn't EM be kind of double dipping because the extra haste lets you fit in more spells during the 30/50% buff effect?
    No, Haste doesn't increase your uptime unless EM is used like rejuv, and spellpower/crit/etc are also strengthened by the EM buff in the same way, e.g. fit in more crits; the EM buff is equivalent to just a passive stance modifier change from 1.2 to 1.5*1.2 for that target, which does not affect stat weights, being multiplicative to all healing

    - - - Updated - - -

    I realized I'd forgotten to apply the burst value weight to the burst component of double-dipping HoTs for below mana cap. Should be fixed now.

    (Haste is now more sad)

    Fun fact: As I add more fidelity, so far the stat weights rounded to the nearest hundredth place aren't even changing, which means the lower-fidelity estimates used in WoD were pretty good.
    Last edited by Geodew; 2015-12-22 at 03:29 AM.
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  15. #35
    Completed the 5-man Mastery burst component. Formula is now complete (but again, ~90% of its value comes from the estimates from logs).

    Mastery is good for EM plus Effuse or 1-target Vivify spam (when you DGAF about mana), even with ReM ticking on your target before the burst occurs, as many of you already figured, so the burst is strong (Intermediates tab, cells F105 - F107 in the current revision). Basically, Mastery is really strong for keeping a tank alive (kind-of-duh).

    (Mastery 5-man value up)
    Last edited by Geodew; 2015-12-23 at 08:09 AM.
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  16. #36
    Updated for Alpha Build 20914.
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  17. #37
    Update:
    - I missed some patch notes; corrected Vivify from 250% x3 to 225% x3.
    - Value tab weights should now correctly be applied to all effects on the TFT tab instead of just mana gains/losses.
    - Not sure, but Mana was maybe messed up for a while there (at some point, it reverted back to an incorrect formula somehow. Maybe I hit undo too many times.). Should be fixed now. (Haste value down, Mana value down, TFT Vivify down significantly)
    - TFT ReM during downtime added (the previous entry was for not-downtime; they're significantly different when you're not sacrificing a meaningful GCD).
    - TFT ReM now includes +50% Vivify procs. (Assuming partial ticks have partial proc rate for now. Not sure that's how it works, though.)
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  18. #38
    Updated for Build 21108

    Relevant changes:
    -ReM 75% sp per tick to 50%

    RSK's mana cost isn't relevant to any calculations yet.
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  19. #39
    - Added a talent tab for talent selection and evaluation. To be built upon further, of course.
    - Corrected an error in TFT-EM. Must've been half asleep when I did that one because it was nowhere near what it's supposed to be.
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  20. #40
    If you were to used named cells it would be so much easier to look at figure out what you are doing. Without the cells lighting up since it's multi page spreadsheet its a real pain to follow.

    https://support.google.com/docs/answer/63175?hl=en

    Rather than something being.
    =(60/Truths!$F$12) * Truths!$F$68 * (2*Truths!$F$20 + Truths!$F$23 + Truths!$F$21*(FLOOR((Truths!$F$66-Truths!$F$43-Truths!$F$48)/Truths!$F$41))) * Intermediates!$F$23

    It would be

    =(60/CooldownManaTeasec)*ManaTeaManaCostReduction*(2*ManaCostEssenceFontmana+ManaCostRenewingMi stmana+ManaCostVivifymana*(FLOOR((DurationManaTeasec - CasttimeEssenceFontsec - CasttimeRenewingMistsec)/CasttimeVivifysec)))*Valuefrom1Manaspellpower

    - - - Updated - - -

    Whats the idea behind Value from 1 Mana (% spellpower)? Is it just that you would replace soothings with vivifys if you had more mana?

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