New Blessings - The end of homogenized raid buffs?

[gratax]

So, were basicly going to cast around buffs to other people 50% of the fight? seems a little annoying.

[Grocalis]

Was able to get on a paladin for a little bit during the Alpha. Right now, Blessing of Wisdom is bugged and does not cast a buff, it just does a 14k instant heal for some reason. However, both BoK and BoM can be cast on you or anyone else, and can be stacked on top of each other.

Here is where the design seems to go with the three buff limit. The game assumes that when solo, you will have all three of the buffs on you. When you do a dungeon, you can switch off the buffs based on where it might get the most usage, for instance you can pass BoK to the tank for the shield (which acts like the old Sacred Shield, but has an HOUR duration), or give the healer BoW. You can then keep BoM on yourself, or pass it to another DPS who might utilize it better.

Maybe though, the tank is extremely good, and does not need your shield, well that frees up a slot to keep BoM on you, and put one on another DPS. Or maybe the healer is great, but the tank is having problems, well you can cast BoK and BoW on the tank for both the shield and the chance on hit 5% heal.

Personally I like it. It feels like a great boost when soloing, but will give us a lot of power to fine tune the group slightly based on what you need. It gives more dynamic choices before (or during) combat, and makes us feel like, well, a PALADIN, who is supposed to be leading and guiding other players and bringing them strength.

[Demsi]

i'm liking this, much better than just stats

[Adaren]

*explanation*

This sounds much better than how I was interpreting it. I like it!

[Edlarel]

*snip*

Well said, and I very much like how it works.
While I can understand those asking if this is going to be "I'm either buffed and equal the rogue's DPS or I'm better than the rogue with this", the point of these buffs doesn't seem to be that. It does sound like with all other things equal a paladin with the buff will be higher dps than the rogue without it. But, they will be equal DPS if they both get the buff (either because a lower DPS paladin gives it to the rogue because it's better utilized that way or you cast it twice and leave kings off a tank that doesn't need it).

The problem here ends up being social, not mechanical. Players not in high-end raiding (so it shouldn't matter anyway) are naturally going to give themselves the DPS buff and maybe hand out one to another DPS plus buff the tank or healer if another paladin isn't already. In high end raiding, the lead will be expected to know who deserves what buffs at any given time or will look toward having more than one ret paladin to give out the buff accordingly. That said, there's a finite number of buffs anyway since it's redundant (and nigh impossible) for every raid member to have all three buffs at a time. (Disclaimer, I'm not a high end raider) I would think a mythic guild may bring 2 rets to start so they know both tanks always have Kings and up to 4 DPS (whether those paladins or not, but probably casters without their own regen) have a buff as well, with some sacrifice on that part in case healers need mana regen.

[HolyAhron]

The problem here ends up being social, not mechanical. *snip*

This. Also, there is a UI problem. Is there a counter somewhere that shows how many Blessings you have active or not active? I would imagine they are going to need to add a charge counter to the Blessing abilities. Example: Three charges = 3 blessings available to cast; zero charges = all the blessings are active, and the next cast will remove the oldest(?) one.

Also, how do you track who has which blessing? As nostalgic as I am for PallyPower, I don't want to feel like I need it if we have 2+ paladins in the raid. (Related note: I do think there is room for changes to the Blizzard raid unit frames where YOUR buffs are emphasized i.e. 1.25x or 1.5x the icon size--in the current UI, the icons for your buffs are TINY and difficult to discern.)

[nightfalls]

Here is where the design seems to go with the three buff limit. The game assumes that when solo, you will have all three of the buffs on you. When you do a dungeon, you can switch off the buffs based on where it might get the most usage, for instance you can pass BoK to the tank for the shield (which acts like the old Sacred Shield, but has an HOUR duration), or give the healer BoW. You can then keep BoM on yourself, or pass it to another DPS who might utilize it better.

Maybe though, the tank is extremely good, and does not need your shield, well that frees up a slot to keep BoM on you, and put one on another DPS. Or maybe the healer is great, but the tank is having problems, well you can cast BoK and BoW on the tank for both the shield and the chance on hit 5% heal.

I like it for the most part. What I don't like and think shouldn't stay is being able to use multiples of a specific buff. It should be 1 Kings, 1 Might, and 1 Wisdom per Paladin, and limit of 1 copy of each buff per player (i.e. you can have BoK and BoW, but not 2x BoK of course).

As is, I'd imagine most high-end guilds will put 3 Blessings of Might per Paladin, it looks by far to be the most optimal. I can't actually see Kings being used at all, TBH, it looks like the shittest blessing out of the lot for raid utility (though ofc great for PvP/soloing!)

P.S. Looked at numbers 10% chance to do 30% additional damage is a 3% overall DPS boost, possibly more on a physical damage class. That's actually quite a bit. Possibly more if you're VERY good at juggling it during dead GCD's to DPS who have CD's up also.

That, by the way, is easily going to beat a Sacred Shield for that pitiful amount (consider that healers have instant heals for 1000%+ SP). The only one that might compare is Wisdom, for the 4% mana per minute, which equates in a 6 minute fight to 24% mana. Still think making the fight shorter (via Kings) will be better. Hell, 4% mana per minute will easily equate to roughly the 1306% SP in healing per minute, except it's better (since it can go on other targets, will overheal less than the Kings, and I believe most healers will do over 1306% SP for 4% max mana).

[Deleted]

I like it for the most part. What I don't like and think shouldn't stay is being able to use multiples of a specific buff. It should be 1 Kings, 1 Might, and 1 Wisdom per Paladin, and limit of 1 copy of each buff per player (i.e. you can have BoK and BoW, but not 2x BoK of course)..

I think that would devalue it. From the point of view of mythic raiding, we desperately need effective, desirable utility. Restricting it to one good buff and two lesser ones means it is straight up not as good (if a situation occurred where it was as good, you have the option to use that anyway).

As you note, the buff from BoM is very effective - especially for guilds making tight dps checks and, who knows?, we might see Rets in the world first chasing fold again.

[Celebhil]

I have been wondering why we're seeing talents that involve boosting attack speed (without art of war or seal of truth whats the point), but it might simply be to amp up the effectiveness of Might on Ret

[nightfalls]

I think that would devalue it. From the point of view of mythic raiding, we desperately need effective, desirable utility. Restricting it to one good buff and two lesser ones means it is straight up not as good (if a situation occurred where it was as good, you have the option to use that anyway). As you note, the buff from BoM is very effective - especially for guilds making tight dps checks and, who knows?, we might see Rets in the world first chasing fold again.

Of course it's not as good in terms of power, but I think it is more interesting that your utility consists of a damage boost, healing boost, and absorb. Versus a "choice" that isn't really a choice either, because it's just 3x damage boosts.

Obviously, for overall tuning (hence "usefulness") the abilities themselves, or Ret's other utility/damage can be adjusted to compensate so they are still worth bringing. It's more of a suggestion to make the utility more interesting, not for a nerf (which can't really happen without tuning in the first place).

[Super Kami Dende]

I enjoy after all these years of people saying "Ret is shit, why bring a Ret when you can bring anything else" are now freaking out they will somehow lose their raid spot because Ret has a few buffs.

Calm down Kiddos.

[Hellfury]

Now that ithe mechanic was explained

Iam loving them!

[ipoststuff]

Love the new blessings. I'd like a minor glyph for casting all 3 on ourselves for Random BGs. Something like the Mounted King Glyph.

[PuppetShowJustice]

Maybe it's just because my raid is a bunch of filthy casuals at this point but am I the only one who finds this actually kind of cool? It definitely provides some degree of gameplay above and beyond Kings and Might being on a buff checklist before a boss pull. I understand the concerns about stacking but melee are always on about "Why bring us over a ranged" and this seems like a decent answer to that. Wouldn't you want to put Might on, like, your Hunters anyways so you get the best of both worlds? Ret utility buff + ranged physical DPS to take advantage of it?

[killwithpwr]

Please... hand spells don't directly increase DPS or mana regen. They only allow you to circunvent mechanics.

I guess you will be the first of a type of poster that lurks here and only cares about what is good for themselves and not for the game. These buffs are going to come at a cost, and that cost will be proportional to the buff presented. So, prepare to be the new single target shadow priest. Any ret that is confortable with that is a bad ret and has no confidence on his own skills to the point he wants to have a raid spot due to the buffs he brings. This is completely opposed to the logic of "bring the player, not the class".
I did the buff bot with DPS tax thing in TBC. It sucks, i don't want it back.

Lol. Just... Lol.

That's a very idiotic reasoning. I like hand spells (which can mostly be cast for the sake of other team members) and so I only care about myself.

Other than that, if the 1 GCD you spend on casting a hand spell and the time it takes you to click on a needed players portrait is too taxing on your boss tunneling... Then you should probably not play a class with raid wide utility any way?

Just a 2 cents prospect.

[Lordk0z]

The thing is, this is what we bring to raids. Rogues have something else, so do Mages, so do (Continues down list of classes)
Does a Resto Druid heal less than a Holy Priest because he has a Brez? Nope, do mages have X less DPS do make up for having bloodlust? Nope

Then again, we're paladins. This is blizzard.

[Reghame]

The thing is, this is what we bring to raids. Rogues have something else, so do Mages, so do (Continues down list of classes)
Does a Resto Druid heal less than a Holy Priest because he has a Brez? Nope, do mages have X less DPS do make up for having bloodlust? Nope

Then again, we're paladins. This is blizzard.

your under the assumption that blizzard balances classes ( and specs) around who they favor. this is not true actually (unless your a mage, fuck you. jk) the problem ret has always has was that we deal this burst damage that can be hardly handled because its both melee and ranged with the only counter being CC (and in some cases, there was no counter other than killing you, which is actually not a counter at all just like CC is not an actual counter) the other problem ret had was because it could heal, it's healing ability either was too good or not enough. basically ret was just a too much or too little spec for pvp and could never be balanced properly.

Now im not saying ret will be godlike, im not omniscient or anything ( OR AM I!) but ret's core is now being displayed as having strong burst melee niche, and a obvious counter play ( lack of mobility ) i could easily say outside of that they seem on par with other classes in healing and defensive values as well from what i have currently observed on the alpha.

of course things will be different when everyone hits 110, but this doom and gloom feast is kinda sad, i keep seeing all these types of posts saying ret sucks because X ability is either there or not there. of course they arent, its alpha. if your going to complain about something it should PROLLY be about the fact that some classes have talents and procs based on whole core abilities that dont even exists in the build. the only complaint i currently have is that steed charge just does not work at all. (meanwhile things like warriors have whole talent tree pages dedicated to heroic strike but no such ability exists 0.o or things like rogue where they dont even have any stealth abilities.) i can at least say ret has a decent direction to go on, but most specs currently do not.

And here is the quintessential comment on holding all thoughts until a GOOD build lands on the alpha.

[Wondercrab]

I really like this new design. Making class-specific buffs again but making them more limited than the previous ones is a great way of adding more distinction to the individual classes without making them "mandatory" in a group setting. Looks like it'll lead to far more interesting usage of buffs than what we had previously.

[bloodmoth13]

Just putting this out there, enhance shamans get something similar
http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/195255-stormlash
Not exactly the same, but its a raid buff that affects a limited number of players, I am assuming this will be their raid utility and will come at the cost of a major raid CD, like commanding shout and stuff...

[stomination]

Maybe it's just because my raid is a bunch of filthy casuals at this point but am I the only one who finds this actually kind of cool? It definitely provides some degree of gameplay above and beyond Kings and Might being on a buff checklist before a boss pull. I understand the concerns about stacking but melee are always on about "Why bring us over a ranged" and this seems like a decent answer to that. Wouldn't you want to put Might on, like, your Hunters anyways so you get the best of both worlds? Ret utility buff + ranged physical DPS to take advantage of it?

Honestly all it will end up being is buff x tank x healer and X dps who does the most for that fight.

- - - Updated - - -

Just putting this out there, enhance shamans get something similar
http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/195255-stormlash
Not exactly the same, but its a raid buff that affects a limited number of players, I am assuming this will be their raid utility and will come at the cost of a major raid CD, like commanding shout and stuff...

Enhance shamans also have a totem version of stampeding roar.

http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=188089/earthen-spike

Could be 10% increase to anyone with physical or nature dmg or could just be the shaman. Probably just the shaman cause I really don't see blizz wanting to stack classes.