Warrior Alpha Feedback and Impressions

[siangy]

Now that you listed out all these problems, it really seems like the design is in a mess and they need to revert enrage duration from 6 to 8 sec for Legion. Not to say the talent trees are all in a mess right now. Finger crossed they actually make huge changes to them.

[Ragingdragon]

fury seems ok and all ,but where the hell is the arms info!! the artifact info for arms isnt out yet and i've been waiting patiently on the arms artifact info, with no signs whatsoever. so far arms isnt looking amazing but they need to at least throw us a bone, jeez. we need some datamined arms info. I'd like to think arms will get a tad bit better in Legion :P

[Archimtiros]

fury seems ok and all ,but where the hell is the arms info!! the artifact info for arms isnt out yet and i've been waiting patiently on the arms artifact info, with no signs whatsoever. so far arms isnt looking amazing but they need to at least throw us a bone, jeez. we need some datamined arms info. I'd like to think arms will get a tad bit better in Legion :P

Arms isn't available on alpha, which most likely means they are actively working on it. In the grand scheme of things, that's probably good rather than bad.

[Deleted]

"Here have this buff that lasts 6 seconds, whilst you waste 1.5 seconds of it trying to keep your other buff that lasts 6 seconds up, whilst you then actually use an ability 1.5 seconds after that to deal damage for 3 seconds until you have to cancel aura and try to keep your 2nd buff up"


- What happened to Sudden Death? Doesn't appear in the talent calculator

[Archimtiros]

"Here have this buff that lasts 6 seconds, whilst you waste 1.5 seconds of it trying to keep your other buff that lasts 6 seconds up, whilst you then actually use an ability 1.5 seconds after that to deal damage for 3 seconds until you have to cancel aura and try to keep your 2nd buff up"


- What happened to Sudden Death? Doesn't appear in the talent calculator

Basically, and it's further exacerbated in AoE, as we're now basically required to use Dragon Roar before Bladestorm, and even more with the inclusion of the new 1st tier Artifact trait which is a 4s AoE fire DoT. Yet another awkward timer that doesn't synergize with anything. Of all the traits, I hope that one gets changed. With all the new talented abilities, we really don't need anything else jammed into the rotation. Either give us something utility, or an off GCD buff (a new Ignite Weapon to go along with this fire theme would be cool).

[Deleted]

It just feels like a cluster fuck of buffs we need to keep up, if they want to go the route of Fury maintaining several buffs that's fine but the only way I can see this working is either; as you've said extend the duration so you get the full 6 seconds of Bladestorm + Droar or allow the user of Berserker Rage during Bladestorm to extend Enrage.

I'd even go as far to say have Droar off the global, since as far as I can tell we're using it for it's buff and not it's damage. Hell, just make Droar cause us to enrage in addition to being off the GCD so we can macro Droar to Bladestorm. I'm all for synnergy and interesting rotations but this just doesn'r work

[Archimtiros]

- What happened to Sudden Death? Doesn't appear in the talent calculator

Forgot this part, Sudden Death is gone and replaced with a shittier version as an artifact trait "Sense Death: Execute has a 15% chance to make your next Execute to consume no rage".

Really love it when they do that, take something we already had, make it worse, and call it a "perk". Feels like "Improved Recklessness" all over again.

- - - Updated - - -

It just feels like a cluster fuck of buffs we need to keep up, if they want to go the route of Fury maintaining several buffs that's fine but the only way I can see this working is either; as you've said extend the duration so you get the full 6 seconds of Bladestorm + Droar or allow the user of Berserker Rage during Bladestorm to extend Enrage.

I'd even go as far to say have Droar off the global, since as far as I can tell we're using it for it's buff and not it's damage. Hell, just make Droar cause us to enrage in addition to being off the GCD so we can macro Droar to Bladestorm. I'm all for synnergy and interesting rotations but this just doesn'r work

I don't mind the abilities in of themselves, but you can tell that they were put together without much forethought as to how the rotation would actually work together. Doesn't mean it can't be balanced as is, but its definitely clunky. Sadly AoE is no different, and our artifact doesn't seem to do much to help the situation.

Actually the artifact has me kind of disappointed. There's a couple buffs that look good, but most of them are boring flat damage boosts (which everyone has), a health buff (which is a shittier version of the DR everyone else gets), a healing buff (which everyone gets), and a few utility buffs (charge, crappy Sudden death, enrage autos). Everyone gets those utliity buffs too, and maybe it's just me, but I'm not overly impressed by them.

[Deleted]

I think the Artifact buffs or whatever they're called are just another way of adjusting tuning so they had to be boring, if a class is doing a considerably more instead of adjusting certain abilities Blizzard can just apply a blanket nerf to Artifact buffs or things like Seasoned Soldier - I think they treated Hunters Aspect of the Hawk/Iron Hawk the same. Boring design but if it means tuning is easier and they can put focus on other aspects of the game I can't complain too much.

I don't mind the abilities in of themselves, but you can tell that they were put together without much forethought as to how the rotation would actually work together.

Getting that feeling a lot, hesitantly I'm putting it down to the expansion being awhile away. Same applies to a lot of Demon Hunter abilities and Mages... Specifically Arcanes "AoE".

Improved Recklessness was great! Can't tell if they didn't like everyone having a raid wide buff from Skull Banner or if they didn't like that we were macroing it with Reck 90% of the time - perhaps both. Though, I don't understand this new artifact perk, did you typo or is it really a chance of a free Execute only after you've already used Execute...?

[Archimtiros]

I think the Artifact buffs or whatever they're called are just another way of adjusting tuning so they had to be boring, if a class is doing a considerably more instead of adjusting certain abilities Blizzard can just apply a blanket nerf to Artifact buffs or things like Seasoned Soldier - I think they treated Hunters Aspect of the Hawk/Iron Hawk the same. Boring design but if it means tuning is easier and they can put focus on other aspects of the game I can't complain too much.



Getting that feeling a lot, hesitantly I'm putting it down to the expansion being awhile away. Same applies to a lot of Demon Hunter abilities and Mages... Specifically Arcanes "AoE".

Improved Recklessness was great! Can't tell if they didn't like everyone having a raid wide buff from Skull Banner or if they didn't like that we were macroing it with Reck 90% of the time - perhaps both. Though, I don't understand this new artifact perk, did you typo or is it really a chance of a free Execute only after you've already used Execute...?

No, I didn't typo it, that's what it is. It's nice enough during the Execute phase, but it's literally the same thing we already had, except based off using Execute rather than Autos, and therefore only during the Execute phase.

As for Improved Reck, it wasn't that they merged Skull Banner and Reck; it was that they reduced the effect from 30% to 15%, then gave us a "leveling perk" that brought it back up to 30%. The perk literally did nothing except balance it back to where it was before they nerfed it.

[Pua]

- What happened to Sudden Death? Doesn't appear in the talent calculator

It does, it's just been renamed to "Overpower".

Basically, and it's further exacberatted in AoE...

Come on, man. "Exasperate" or "exacerbate". Stop being greedy and pick one, or the other.

[Archimtiros]

It does, it's just been renamed to "Overpower".

After a fashion, yes, but it does nowhere near the damage of Execute. Execute is 350% dmg with main and offhand. Overpower was recently buffed to 250% (single), with a 60% chance to crit. Even assuming a crit that's 500% crit vs Executes combined 700% hit and potential 1,400% crit (using simple math here).



Come on, man. "Exasperate" or "exacerbate". Stop being greedy and pick one, or the other. [/QUOTE]

Hey, its 3 am and I type fast. They can't all be winners!

[Pua]

After a fashion, yes, but it does nowhere near the damage of Execute. Execute is 350% dmg with main and offhand. Overpower was recently buffed to 250% (single), with a 60% chance to crit. Even assuming a crit that's 500% crit vs Executes combined 700% hit and potential 1,400% crit (using simple math here).

I'm merely arguing that it's mechanically the same thing, which is frustrating. Overpower had a very definitive feel to it, particularly in Wrath given its synergy with Taste for Blood, and the avoidance aspect of it is what made it different.

Now, it's just a crappier version of Sudden Death that likely won't compete with Raging Blow. Big let down.

Hey, its 3 am and I type fast. They can't all be winners!

Go to sleep, man. Everyone will be here when you wake up.

[Deleted]

If Overpower doesn't do more damage, or at least have a chance through crit (IE: deals more damage when it crits than other spells when they crit), then I can't see it being worth using. Just logically seems like a waste of a global, especially now RB isn't a stacking buff.

I can't view Overpower as anything other than a PvP ability, since it used to trigger off of your attacks being dodged/parry'd. Later became usable on rend ticks (I think? May have just made that up...) and then just granted 2 uses per Mortal Strike in MoP. Admittedly I liked the MoP variation because it was a low rage ability that dealt moderate damage and bolstered the rotation slightly.

Fury's rotation does not need bolstering, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they removed it from Furys talent tree entirely.

[Deleted]

What I don't get is Rampage. What I heard it should be a 2 sec "channel" with a GCD. During the channel you should be able to move and use other skills after the GCD.

Assuming we get some haste from frenzy and crits, we might be able to push our GCD down to 1sek. At this state we could perma channel Rampage while fillig every second GCD with something else.

What i really wish for is a Rage dependent BS. Starting with 15 Rage per sec and increase rage consumption by 5 every sec. A 3 sec BS would cost 60 Rage. Maybe with a xx sec buff/debuff Duration for the rage cost, to stop extrem Situation.

[chooi]

This kind of convolution simply isn't necessary, and doesn't add anything beneficial to the game. It doesn't need a high skill cap, the difficulty of the game already exists, it comes from executing a proper rotation for an extended period of time while performing mechanics.

Of course, this isn't to say that a rotation needs to be overly simplified, down to 3 buttons either. Strictly speaking, a rotation only needs 3 things to work: It needs to be intuitive, engaging and fluid. Oddly misaligned timers simply don't accomplish those goals.

< insert ThankYou.gif >

[Deleted]

Treckie is trying out prot now

http://www.twitch.tv/treckie

[chooi]

I'd even go as far to say have Droar off the global, since as far as I can tell we're using it for it's buff and not it's damage. Hell, just make Droar cause us to enrage in addition to being off the GCD so we can macro Droar to Bladestorm. I'm all for synnergy and interesting rotations but this just doesn'r work

Reading that another idea came up to my mind: make the Lvl 100 row the 'alter Recklessness' tree.

What do I mean?

- have the reduce Reck to 30sec CD talent with 100 Rage on Use, Enrage on Use
- Dragon Roar replaces Reck (1min CD, 100% Crit, 20% more damage for its duration, extended duration (~ 8sec))
- Skull Banner is back! (2min CD, 100% Crit, 100% more Crit Damage for me, 20% more Crit damage for party/raid, extended duration (~ 12sec))
- (move Carnage somewhere else, e.g. scrap Overpower for Fury)

Just some quick thoughts. Don't punch me for the numbers.

EDIT: Added/changed some things.

[Pua]

Just some quick thoughts. Don't punch me for the numbers.

Unfortunately, I don't think the issue can be solved in isolation. The talents need a complete overhaul at this point, because they're all over the place.

As a career Protection warrior, it's things like Crackling Thunder that frighten me. What the fuck is that? Honestly. It fills me with dread to think that, quite possibly, they've nerfed the baseline area of Thunder Clap by 50% and put the talent in to get it back to normal.

If that's what they've done, it's unforgiveable. If that's not what they've done, the talent is dreadful.

[Kirbydude65]

I didn't get a ton of time last night to play on the alpha (I didn't realize the servers were up, and I was half an hour late to work yesterday, so going to bed on time was a large priority for me), but I did get the chance to sit around and toy with Fury a bit. I haven't terribly looked into a lot of minor things like Architmos has (I didn't even realize enrage was down to 6 seconds, no wonder I couldn't shove a lot of Raging Blows into the attack), but I did notice a few things when my talents were falling apart on themselves.

1.) Animations are sweet. Archi misses his spins a bit, but I'll gladly give them away for just something new. I've talked about new animations for melee classes since the introduction of the monk. Whirlwind, Revenge, Execute (probably the weakest animation, but still fresh), and rampage all were visually appealing to look at. I haven't been excited for a warrior animation since Bladestorm was introduced in WotLK.

I'll do my best to get some video of these animations up later this afternoon when I get home from work for those who haven't seen them.

2.) Frenzy, is an insane talent when it comes to granting haste stacks. Looking for a fast playstyle? Frenzy is what you're looking for. At 5 stacks Rage was constantly capped, I felt like I was missing chances to use BT and other abiltiies. Pretty sure it won't stay this way number wise, but they've got the idea of it.

Like I said I didn't get a lot of time to play, but Fury seems Ok to start. I'll have to dig deeper and actually do some stuff later today.

[Maltore]

They need to give Arms the Overpower they want, and put Sudden Death back in place for Fury.

And change that ghetto Sudden Death artifact trait to something more beneficial - perhaps, "Execute critical strikes cause you to Enrage"


Execute is one of the reasons I play a warrior, and being able to use it occasionally throughout the fight just feels so good. I'll be very, very sad if Sudden Death leaves me .

#LeaveFurySuddenDeathAlone!