Yugioh Thread

[4KhazModan]

I finally got my binder sorted:
http://imgur.com/a/3qxDm

I put it in an album, because linking them each would be really spammy. Stuff in my album includes:
-Cool/Old cards or promos
-Side deck cards
-Extra deck cards I don't use for my Yosenju/Psyframe deck
-OEM cards I haven't added to the deck yet
-Cards from archetypes I am interested in like Gravekeepers, Speedroids, Resonators, ect
-Dark Worlds from my Dark World deck
-Kawaii page

[ChronoSul]

New cards leaked
https://ygorganization.com/shvi-jp-leaks/
I for one welcome our new Draco overlords...

[4KhazModan]

EVEN MORE! https://ygorganization.com/targeting_the_untargetable/

Sooooooooooooooo many new Amorphages. Me gusta :]

[ShiroeMegane]

Before I begin, let me start by introducing myself. I am Shiroe Megane. I've been playing since Yu-Gi-Oh! came out and enjoyed many aspects of the game across every generation. This will be a long-ish post, I think, and as a result, there will be a TL;DR at the end. Now... Let's start.

*takes a very deep breath*

Yu-Gi-Oh! started off as a great concept with lots of room to grow and evolve throughout the years. Unfortunately, Konami focused more on milking the game than they did keeping it a steady and balanced system. While GX era Yu-Gi-Oh! (Hero's initial formats) was debateably one of the best ("Goat Format" being a typical fallback for casual veterans of the game who used to be competitive, and even some modern competitive players), the Synchro Era that followed was a marked decline in the game.

Now, before people get the wrong idea, let me explain... Synchro Summoning is more balanced in some aspects than Fusion Summoning or even Ritual Summoning. It was not the new method that was the problem, but rather Konami's greed that was the problem. From here, more cards were pumped out that had overly powerful abilities in relation to their ease of access. Trishula, Brionac, and Goyo Guardian were the best examples of this shift in balance, given the time they were "live". You had these archetypes that could pump out more and more Synchro Material for cheap, nearly free, virtually making these Synchro Summons unnecessarily cheap despite their massive power. Beyond that, Omni-Heroes started being released marking the beginning of even more powerful Fusions than what there were before. To make matters worse, instead of "hitting" the cards that were problems, unbalancing the game at the time, Konami let it go. They cared about using reprints and sales to line their pockets over actually making the game tolerable, and the cards they reprinted seldom seemed to be the things that people needed at the time. Sure, Konami is a company and has to make money, but a healthy game would promote that better.

Again, once Xyz format came out, we saw the same thing occur again. We had the "Wind-Up Loop" and "Inzektor Hornet Loop" making the game virtually unplayable at the time: the former cleared the victim's hand on turn one, while the latter crushed the field on turn 2; both could maintain their loop in the later turns. Note: I never got hindered by these decks, but that was dumb luck on my part, not skill. As for "Dino Rabbits", they just controlled the field too dominantly. These decks held the Tier 1 positions for too long without being hit. One can argue that Konami tried to get rid of them, but all of their hits early on resulted in the problem cards staying and the things that didn't make a difference being "limited" or "banned". Once "Drag Rulers" came out, the same thing happened again on an even greater scale, resulting in too large of a multitude of cards getting limited or banned when they otherwise didn't need to because the Dragons themselves were the problems, given their excessively easy condition to use and abuse. Then, around this time, Konami banned a lot of things that, at the time, didn't make too much sense, but given modern context seem more understandable... Bye bye anti-meta cards (Macro Cosmos - Limited, Morphing Jar and #2 - both Banned, Stratos - Banned, etc.).

Finally, you get Arc V era... This is when the hits from last generation begins to make sense... With Pendulums, debatably the most fair of all Inherent Special Summoning Methods, around, as well as an era where old archetypes would receive new support, having spammable reset buttons and excessive search/control power was a bad idea, but so were the new archetypes to be released. Shaddoll (Graveyard-based Fusions), Burning Abyss (Graveyard-based Xyz), Nekroz (Extremely consistent and controlling Rituals), and Qliphorts (Pendulum at the height of its power at that time) all came into play. Macro Cosmos would have been Mained at 3 in every deck if still Unlimited. Morphing Jar #2 would have been in every Side Deck, alongside Fossil Dyna. Stratos, with the introduction of "Dark Law", "Blazeman", and "Shadow Mist" would have made Hero decks become an even larger problem than those three new cards already had made it... Konami forsook balance to let their new "Set Sellers" maximize profits... But as a consequence, they created a situation where properly Limiting and Banning cards would have been difficult to do, regardless. On the upside, the have been trying to make decks capable of being made for cheap and they're trying to make good decks more readily available to players... But the problem is, I feel they've already caused too much damage, especially in their secondary market, with how they did things.

TL;DR: The power creep in this game kept going off the charts, more and more. It became unhealthy a long time ago, and for me the magic has faded, much as it seems to for many others. While my memories may not be exactly right, or good examples may have been forgotten... the fact is, Yu-Gi-Oh! became too much about money and the fixes they're doing are too late to save it, I feel. But hey, who knows, maybe I'm wrong in the end.

[4KhazModan]

I think the most recent TCG banlist confirms your point. They hit all the old decks to push pendulums hard. Shaddolls, Burning Abyss, Qliphort, Nekroz, Satellarknights, even Ritual Beasts did not leave the November banlist unscathed. They also banned Exciton Knight so Pendulums are harder to deal with now. That said though, I think it is less about the money and more about pushing the new pendulum mechanic since that is the thing for this series of yugioh. Pepe is a tier 0 deck worse than anything that has come before it. Dragon Rulers had Spellbooks to contest them, at least until Judgement was banned, but nothing contests pepe. That said, I don't think Konami will let it happen for too long. The OCG banned Plushfire, Mirror Conductor, and Shockmaster in their most recent banlist. It isn't ALL about the money, many of the key cards are actually commons for the deck, and in general, Konami has made decent decks cheaper recently. The Mega Tins made the DEUA decks sooo much more inexpensive, the masked hero deck is decent, the Master of Pendulum structure deck makes building Odd-Eyes Magicians so much easier and cheaper too (I built the deck myself as well), and the upcoming monarch structure deck which we will be getting in just over 2 weeks is very good (if cancer to play against). Even though pepe will be tier 0, there will still be decks that can compete and Konami made them relatively inexpensive.

[ShiroeMegane]

I think the most recent TCG banlist confirms your point. They hit all the old decks to push pendulums hard. Shaddolls, Burning Abyss, Qliphort, Nekroz, Satellarknights, even Ritual Beasts did not leave the November banlist unscathed. They also banned Exciton Knight so Pendulums are harder to deal with now. That said though, I think it is less about the money and more about pushing the new pendulum mechanic since that is the thing for this series of yugioh. Pepe is a tier 0 deck worse than anything that has come before it. Dragon Rulers had Spellbooks to contest them, at least until Judgement was banned, but nothing contests pepe. That said, I don't think Konami will let it happen for too long. The OCG banned Plushfire, Mirror Conductor, and Shockmaster in their most recent banlist. It isn't ALL about the money, many of the key cards are actually commons for the deck, and in general, Konami has made decent decks cheaper recently. The Mega Tins made the DEUA decks sooo much more inexpensive, the masked hero deck is decent, the Master of Pendulum structure deck makes building Odd-Eyes Magicians so much easier and cheaper too (I built the deck myself as well), and the upcoming monarch structure deck which we will be getting in just over 2 weeks is very good (if cancer to play against). Even though pepe will be tier 0, there will still be decks that can compete and Konami made them relatively inexpensive.

While I see where you are coming from, it seems as though Konami is more likely to ban a non-holo that makes the game less healthy than they are to ban a holo, at least earlier on in its release. At least, that's just what I've seen. And if it was all about the Pendulum mechanic, they wouldn't be outputting so much non-Pendulum support that is able to serve as a counter to it. Look at Nekroz, Dark Law, and the new BLS support as prime examples. Otherwise, I feel we're relatively in agreement. I wouldn't want you to agree with everything I said. Haha That'd be boring then. :P I hope you enjoy your day.

[4KhazModan]

Pendulum mechanic wasn't as dominant last format because it was still evolving. All the summoning methods got better over time. When XYZ was new for example, Utopia was a good card, but now the only reason you would run Utopia over literally every other rank 4 would be if you played Utopia the Lightning. Last format, the only good pendulum deck was Qlis, and even then their main thing was tributing, they just happened to have pendulums too. Yosenju are another good example, they did have pendulums too, but the pendulum variants were a lot worse than the normal kama 1/2/3/tsujik + floodgate builds. That has changed now though and pendulums are a lot more consistent and powerful than they were in the DEUA era. You should check out this article on the topic: https://ygorganization.com/pendulum/ it really does a good job explaining how the mechanic evolved over the past year to where it is now.

[ChronoSul]

While I see where you are coming from, it seems as though Konami is more likely to ban a non-holo that makes the game less healthy than they are to ban a holo, at least earlier on in its release. At least, that's just what I've seen. And if it was all about the Pendulum mechanic, they wouldn't be outputting so much non-Pendulum support that is able to serve as a counter to it. Look at Nekroz, Dark Law, and the new BLS support as prime examples. Otherwise, I feel we're relatively in agreement. I wouldn't want you to agree with everything I said. Haha That'd be boring then. :P I hope you enjoy your day.

Konami is also starting to put a holo in every pack so this won't be an issue

[4KhazModan]

I went to my locals for the first time yesterday, for both sneak peak and the Saturday tournament. My sneak peak pulls were ok, Master Pendulum was probably the most valuable, but I also got Dharma Magician for my OEM deck. I also pulled Twin Twister that people kept coming up to me looking to trade for it. I did trade a guy for a Tuning Magician (another BOSH super rare) and completed the OEM deck. I dueled a few people for fun before the tournament, including a couple of 3-way duels, which were as crazy as they sound.

For the tournament itself, I brought my Yosenju/Psyframes and got paired up against Igknights for the first round. I got the upper hand as I negated his stuff and beat him down with Zeta. He topdecked a Raigeki and there was not target to banish with Zeta to dodge the destruction. I then lacked the appropriate psyframes to negate his pendulums and their summons as he summoned a bunch of monsters and activated Tyrants Throes. At that point I only had my Overload as an out but didn't draw it in time. I then sided in Psyframegear Epsilon, the one that negates traps. That way I had an out to that Tyrant's Throes as well as getting rid of Gamma since it is useless against Igknights who are all normal monsters. The early game in the 2nd game again went to me as my Yosenju beat him down. He drew into his Library and started to go off with it. He eventually went for his big pendulum summon to which I responded with a Black Rose and blew up his field of monsters as well as his pendulum scales. With no monsters in his hand and nothing on the field, it was easy to finish him off. The final game was like a combination of the previous 2. He went for the big pendulum summon and tried to activate Tyrant's Throes like he did in the first game, but this time I was holding Epsilon in my hand and negated it, going into Omega, then banished it and a card in his hand. He tried to attack with his remaining monsters, but I had Beta to negate and went into Black Rose, blowing up his field and scales again. At that point he scooped as he couldn't recover from it and I won 2-1. My second match was against Pepe/Magicians, and my opponent was a guy in an ARG hoodie and regionals sleeves. He had a special box with a calculator, several dice, and a coin. Plus, he would shuffle my deck when I gave it to him to cut. So ya, I got to go against mr. tryhard. Needless to say it did not end well for me. Even though I had Delta both games against him to negate him putting Luster Pendulum in the pend zone, he still had ridiculous consistency and made insane fields. I didn't open with circuit in either of the games, so I was powerless against him, so I went 0-2 against him. My third round opponent happened to be the only other psyframe player in the tournament, and if you know anything about the deck, the mirror match is truly a shitfest. To put it into perspective, he told me he has seen people side in Exodia for the psy-frame mirror match. Anyways, his pure build had the advantage against my yosenju/psyframes as I could not respond to his psyframes when my yosenju were on the board, like he could mine. My pot of dualitys also dragged me down as they only served as fodder for Delta and I could no respond either due to the restrictions on special summons duality has on the player who plays it. He also got his Overload more than I did, so he just kept banishing anything I tried to do. I ended up going 0-2 against him, but we played 1 more for fun where I won after he flipped vanity's. He intended to only stop my psyframe play and banish his vanity's with Overload, but I chained the effect of Kama 1 to bounce Overload back to his hand and keep vanity's on the field. I was then able to otk him with my yosenju. After that I left though, partly because 1-2 wasn't exactly going to go very far in the next 2 rounds, and also because I was tired. I had been there since they opened in the morning for sneak peak and hadn't left since. Leaving early let me just beat rush hour too, which was a plus.

I had a ton of fun yesterday though! Even though I didn't have the best pulls, nor did I do great in the tournament, I had a blast, met new people, had some great/fun duels, and built my OEM deck.

[rarhyx]

[Zafire]

I think a lot of the problem would be fixed if they made a "Two summon per turn" rule. Then you wouldn't have turns taking 3 minutes and people getting out three XYZ/Synchro monters in one turn. The amount of "Destroy whatever you want lol" cards is getting out of control, too.

I haven't played in about a year and a half, but it is why I quit playing.

[4KhazModan]

If you guys are looking for a decent and cheap deck, the monarch structure deck looks very good out of the box"



The new deck and support is actually really powerful and good anti-meta.

[ChronoSul]

I've been very tempted to buy that structure deck since it was announced I love monarchs but there is no one for me to play against near me

[4KhazModan]

I have been playing around with the new Felgrand cards and splashed them in Blue-Eyes and Red-Eyes respectively. If you guys wanna try em out too:




I have had mixed results with both, but the Blue-eyes variant does seem to be more consistent as it just has more level 7/8 dragons than Red-eyes which only has Tracer and OG Red-eyes. Blue Eyes gives you access to Spirit and Alternate Dragon as well as the powerful OP as hell fusion and the rank 8 toolbox which works with the deck better than the rank 7 toolbox. In particular, Number 95 works extremely well with the deck. Of course, both of these decks are still works in progress though as I am still working on making them better.

[Bisque]

Before I begin, let me start by introducing myself. I am Shiroe Megane. I've been playing since Yu-Gi-Oh! came out and enjoyed many aspects of the game across every generation. This will be a long-ish post, I think, and as a result, there will be a TL;DR at the end. Now... Let's start.

*takes a very deep breath*

Yu-Gi-Oh! started off as a great concept with lots of room to grow and evolve throughout the years. Unfortunately, Konami focused more on milking the game than they did keeping it a steady and balanced system. While GX era Yu-Gi-Oh! (Hero's initial formats) was debateably one of the best ("Goat Format" being a typical fallback for casual veterans of the game who used to be competitive, and even some modern competitive players), the Synchro Era that followed was a marked decline in the game.

Now, before people get the wrong idea, let me explain... Synchro Summoning is more balanced in some aspects than Fusion Summoning or even Ritual Summoning. It was not the new method that was the problem, but rather Konami's greed that was the problem. From here, more cards were pumped out that had overly powerful abilities in relation to their ease of access. Trishula, Brionac, and Goyo Guardian were the best examples of this shift in balance, given the time they were "live". You had these archetypes that could pump out more and more Synchro Material for cheap, nearly free, virtually making these Synchro Summons unnecessarily cheap despite their massive power. Beyond that, Omni-Heroes started being released marking the beginning of even more powerful Fusions than what there were before. To make matters worse, instead of "hitting" the cards that were problems, unbalancing the game at the time, Konami let it go. They cared about using reprints and sales to line their pockets over actually making the game tolerable, and the cards they reprinted seldom seemed to be the things that people needed at the time. Sure, Konami is a company and has to make money, but a healthy game would promote that better.

Again, once Xyz format came out, we saw the same thing occur again. We had the "Wind-Up Loop" and "Inzektor Hornet Loop" making the game virtually unplayable at the time: the former cleared the victim's hand on turn one, while the latter crushed the field on turn 2; both could maintain their loop in the later turns. Note: I never got hindered by these decks, but that was dumb luck on my part, not skill. As for "Dino Rabbits", they just controlled the field too dominantly. These decks held the Tier 1 positions for too long without being hit. One can argue that Konami tried to get rid of them, but all of their hits early on resulted in the problem cards staying and the things that didn't make a difference being "limited" or "banned". Once "Drag Rulers" came out, the same thing happened again on an even greater scale, resulting in too large of a multitude of cards getting limited or banned when they otherwise didn't need to because the Dragons themselves were the problems, given their excessively easy condition to use and abuse. Then, around this time, Konami banned a lot of things that, at the time, didn't make too much sense, but given modern context seem more understandable... Bye bye anti-meta cards (Macro Cosmos - Limited, Morphing Jar and #2 - both Banned, Stratos - Banned, etc.).

Finally, you get Arc V era... This is when the hits from last generation begins to make sense... With Pendulums, debatably the most fair of all Inherent Special Summoning Methods, around, as well as an era where old archetypes would receive new support, having spammable reset buttons and excessive search/control power was a bad idea, but so were the new archetypes to be released. Shaddoll (Graveyard-based Fusions), Burning Abyss (Graveyard-based Xyz), Nekroz (Extremely consistent and controlling Rituals), and Qliphorts (Pendulum at the height of its power at that time) all came into play. Macro Cosmos would have been Mained at 3 in every deck if still Unlimited. Morphing Jar #2 would have been in every Side Deck, alongside Fossil Dyna. Stratos, with the introduction of "Dark Law", "Blazeman", and "Shadow Mist" would have made Hero decks become an even larger problem than those three new cards already had made it... Konami forsook balance to let their new "Set Sellers" maximize profits... But as a consequence, they created a situation where properly Limiting and Banning cards would have been difficult to do, regardless. On the upside, the have been trying to make decks capable of being made for cheap and they're trying to make good decks more readily available to players... But the problem is, I feel they've already caused too much damage, especially in their secondary market, with how they did things.

TL;DR: The power creep in this game kept going off the charts, more and more. It became unhealthy a long time ago, and for me the magic has faded, much as it seems to for many others. While my memories may not be exactly right, or good examples may have been forgotten... the fact is, Yu-Gi-Oh! became too much about money and the fixes they're doing are too late to save it, I feel. But hey, who knows, maybe I'm wrong in the end.

Very true, however special summoning is Yugioh, you can't have Yugioh without special summoning. Think about it, every incarnation since GX has been another way to special summon, and I guarantee if Yugioh goes past Arc V, the new innovation will be ANOTHER WAY TO SPECIAL SUMMON. If you are looking for some sort of chess match, back and forth type card game, its not Yugioh. Look into a game with a resource system like Magic, Hearthstone, VS system (one of my favorites) or even the old WoW card came. Now lets be clear that is not to say that Magic and games like Magic ARE PERFECT AND WITHOUT FLAWS but by having an inherent resource system , to some degree the game kind of "checks" itself in regards to power creep (of course you still need banlists). With no resource system it is very easy to "go ham" in yugioh with no repercussion, no real downside.

Unless, Konami does some sort of rule change or special summon limit, Yugioh, will be Yugioh. Yugioh will continue to be Yugioh in which the goal is to overwhelm your oppenent as quickly as possible and if for some reason you don't OTK that turn, have a board with cards like infinity, raffelsia, solomon strike (x3) so your opponent can't play back.

So yes Yugioh has issues but that is the game, no banlist, increase in deck size is going to do anything really unless there is a FUNDAMENTAL rule change.

Playing Yugioh and complaining about power creep (while a valid complaint) is kind of like leaving work at 5pm and complaining about traffic- it's inevitable, one cannot exist without the other.

[4KhazModan]

People forget there were some pretty crazy combo and decks back in the day too. They can power creep all they want, but cards like Pot of Greed (BUT WHAT DOES IT DO?!?!), Graceful Charity, Royal Oppression, Delinquent Duo, Forceful Sentry, the Jars (Morphing #1/2, Cyber, Fiber), Sagan, and Witch of the Black Forest were all incredible powerful. I remember the first tournament I went to, the finals consisted of 2 decks that were the exact same, even before archetypes existed. They both had Sinister Serpent, Chaos Emp Dragon, BLS, and all the other powerful cards.

[rarhyx]

[Ðemonhuntr]

Yu-gi-oh news has been a bit slow, but thats mostly cuz the new sets dont have any archetypes im particularly intrested in. I must say since coming back to the game tho i have noticed the sets come out a lot more quickly than i expected

[4KhazModan]

Yu-gi-oh news has been a bit slow, but thats mostly cuz the new sets dont have any archetypes im particularly intrested in. I must say since coming back to the game tho i have noticed the sets come out a lot more quickly than i expected

Yup, we are getting SHVI in a few months, and Premium gold, and 2 new Structure Decks....

[Deleted]

There are 3 new Yu-Gi-Oh games confirmed for 2016.

An Untitled 3DS game,
Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Links for iOS and Android
An untitled Console/ Pc game.

Im Kinda excited about the 3DS game, aslong as it has Multiplayer. (I do not like the current 3DS Yugioh game)