[LEGION] Windwalker Discussion

[Deleted]

Yeah it's exactly the same as all the others, you hit a button and it does something then you continue on in your priority. None of them really change the game, we aren't any worse off than the other specs. Find something real to complain about.

Like 1/3 of the spec have interesting artifact ability. And I bet the rest 2/3 is also complaining about it, so I think it is pretty valid.

[Lucrece]

2 pages in beta forums later and they're still submitting worthless feedback posts wanting 1H sword transmogs.

Instead of, you know, actually submitting useful feedback on things like Tornado Kick being undertuned, Light on Your Feet still existing, and Windwalker being the only melee with a hardcasted heal that cannot be made instant cast -- not to mention Effuse still heals for nothing as well as the other spells in the Chi row of talents.

Chi Wave still does not prioritize the monk for healing bounces.

Strike of the Windlord should get an updated animation; the current one looks like a placeholder. The artifact weapons are still not being held properly when doing striking animations; they're tilted/bent upwards.

Monk needs at least Fortifying and Nimble Brew back.

SCK tab target when SEF is on cd is a pain in the ass.

SEF spirits should be immune to roots and CC.

[Flashyy]

2 pages in beta forums later and they're still submitting worthless feedback posts wanting 1H sword transmogs.

Instead of, you know, actually submitting useful feedback on things like Tornado Kick being undertuned, Light on Your Feet still existing, and Windwalker being the only melee with a hardcasted heal that cannot be made instant cast -- not to mention Effuse still heals for nothing as well as the other spells in the Chi row of talents.

Chi Wave still does not prioritize the monk for healing bounces.

Strike of the Windlord should get an updated animation; the current one looks like a placeholder. The artifact weapons are still not being held properly when doing striking animations; they're tilted/bent upwards.

Monk needs at least Fortifying and Nimble Brew back.

SCK tab target when SEF is on cd is a pain in the ass.

SEF spirits should be immune to roots and CC.

How is it worthless? if that's what's important to them, then they are free to post it.

I agree with some of your feedback, but most of it has already been posted on the forums. The transmog wishes are just as valid.

Edit - if it makes you feel better, i added your concerns to the thread again.

[Lucrece]

How is it worthless? if that's what's important to them, then they are free to post it.

I agree with some of your feedback, but most of it has already been posted on the forums. The transmog wishes are just as valid.

Edit - if it makes you feel better, i added your concerns to the thread again.

It is feedback that's not gonna happen. We've been having this "why can't mace/axes/swords be transmogged into fists and vice versa" conversation for well over 2 xpacs, and constantly the answer has been "we can't do it because of animations". Valid or not, it is something that is not gonna change from feedback on the beta.

I'm even sympathetic to aesthetic concerns, because for some weird reason they didn't even give us jade color palettes EXCEPT for TWO of them, one on base spirit reach and another on Xuen's enforcer. Which is crazy because so many monk transmog sets have jade in them. I'm even annoyed that they gave us fist weapons but didn't bother to alter our striking animations to mesh with them, or the fact our whirling dragon punch is this strange jump spin animation where you neither kick or punch.

But feedback has been eclipsed on the fact that WW feels stale because short of SEF and SCK (which I feel in the case of SCK are changes for the worse), we gained nothing in terms of talent revisions or new artifact spell interactions, but were pruned out of a bunch of our flavor spells. From zen meditation, to fortifying/nimble brew, to expel harms.

Performance must take precedence over aesthetics, and this is coming from a transmog junkie.

P.S. Thanks for adding a list of concerns. Their silence on recent builds has been pretty scary, like they're running out of time to finish up even damage tuning passes.

[Flashyy]

While you're probably right that it won't happen, maybe it will. in the meantime....will i get banned for using tmorph? :P

[Honak]

But feedback has been eclipsed on the fact that WW feels stale because short of SEF and SCK (which I feel in the case of SCK are changes for the worse), we gained nothing in terms of talent revisions or new artifact spell interactions, but were pruned out of a bunch of our flavor spells. From zen meditation, to fortifying/nimble brew, to expel harms.

Performance must take precedence over aesthetics, and this is coming from a transmog junkie.

P.S. Thanks for adding a list of concerns. Their silence on recent builds has been pretty scary, like they're running out of time to finish up even damage tuning passes.

We've been everything BUT quiet about WW on the beta. We've had the same issues, voiced our opinions on those issues, and watched as Blizz continues to ignore us despite 10+ pages in all of our feedback threads since early alpha. Hate to say it, but if you expect them to actually do any mechanical changes at this point then you're living off of false hope. If you don't like how WW currently is on beta(like 99.9% of us) then I'd suggest trying to find something you enjoy playing and swapping to that. The devs think that they did such a fantastic job promoting our new class identity with all these "sick nasty combos bruh," except currently Havoc DH has more combo gameplay than we do. Just accept the fact that as WW we represent one of the least represented specs in the game and they really couldn't care less about us when everyone is going to be jerking off over double jumping as they play their DH.

[Deleted]

I think every feedback is valid, and I suppouse wow devs aren't complete idiots and can differentiate between technical stuff and personal opinions.
And if enough people are vocal about one problem, then blizz will be forced to act about it. Saying stuff like "that's not gonna happen" is incorrect, because how do you know what will or won't happen.

[Babylonius]

Lets try to keep things productive. Wada is right, all feedback comes from a place of wanting to enjoy the game, and its the job of the people from Blizzard who read it, to use it as they will.

They don't have to make changes based on feedback if they want things to go in the other direction. All we can do is continue to give feedback and leave it in their hands.

However, getting angry and grabbing torches and pitchforks, is the quickest way to guarantee that you're feedback goes to the bottom of the usefulness pile.

[Lucrece]

I wish they'd at least would have invested into new striking animations for Windwalkers. I just testes the Amun-toth Fists on my monk and it's going to be awful, just like with our artifact claws or Spirit's Reach, because we strike with the side of our hands or with our open palms -- our fist weapons aren't actually being weaved in properly into our animations; anything other than Tiger Palm looks awful.

[Shoeboots]

Current state of ww would be workable if Blizzard would ditch the tab targeting. Current state of AoE outside of SEF is simply unacceptable. And yes I have beta and have tried it. I've all but accepted at this point that I'll be changing main specs for the first time since 5.0 but will continue to chime in from time to time in the hopes of a late game removal of SCK's tab requirement. I think I could live with the rest of the changes but getting rid of tab targeting is non-negotiable.

[Babylonius]

Current state of ww would be workable if Blizzard would ditch the tab targeting. Current state of AoE outside of SEF is simply unacceptable. And yes I have beta and have tried it. I've all but accepted at this point that I'll be changing main specs for the first time since 5.0 but will continue to chime in from time to time in the hopes of a late game removal of SCK's tab requirement. I think I could live with the rest of the changes but getting rid of tab targeting is non-negotiable.

I think it depends on what the target # breakpoint is where we start incorporating SCK into the rotation and the next point where we focus on SCK. If we want to start using tab SCK at 5+ adds then it's not frequently going to be an issue whereas using it at two or three targets can be easily handled with a macro. It also depends on how long those adds live and they spawn. If once in a fight we have to tab 10 times with SCK in between, then that's not as big of an issue as having to do it every 30s.

There are a lot of variables we don't know yet that will dictate how cumbersome SCK is.

[Lucrece]

All I know is I ditched balance druid and warlock due to their ridiculous fetish for making tab target specs, and now I'm probably being forced to ditch WW due to one more spec that bites the tab target dust.

I despise tab targeting and how it functions in most of these games; it's so tedious to deal with when I'm fighting the UI and create macros to overcome target selection annoyances amidst the sea of mobs they've gotten attached to throwing at us.

Blast Furnance was a perfect example of what I did NOT enjoy dealing with. I hate tab targeting amongs a clusterfuck of mobs. So I'll just stick with a class that doesn't need to switch targets in a frenzy whenever I have to AoE.

[Shoeboots]

I think it depends on what the target # breakpoint is where we start incorporating SCK into the rotation and the next point where we focus on SCK. If we want to start using tab SCK at 5+ adds then it's not frequently going to be an issue whereas using it at two or three targets can be easily handled with a macro. It also depends on how long those adds live and they spawn. If once in a fight we have to tab 10 times with SCK in between, then that's not as big of an issue as having to do it every 30s.

There are a lot of variables we don't know yet that will dictate how cumbersome SCK is.

You have no idea how bad I just wanna get on board with your optimism and keep my favourite class as my main. But the comment above says it all. Tab targeting is the worst. I also left Warlock to get away from tab targeting. Even by your own description, we know it will be cumbersome. We just don't know how cumbersome. I just won't do it, and I think a lot of longtime wind walkers share my view. If anyone reading this has anyone's ear at Blizzard, the tab targeting simply MUST go. And the argument about whether or not tab targeting is as bad as people think it is becomes irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that so many players believe that it is bad. And that belief is valid to the point that a hybrid class with a single dps spec should not ask players to do it.

[Conjugate]

Also don't forget that tab targetting between many targets(especially hectically moving ones) is so much worse for melees than it is for range.. I see people giving the balance druid/affli example here, but it's gonna be WAY worse than that... it might be somewhat close to feral rake tabbing, only with much less afk-time waiting for energy meaning much harder to pull off

[FayrenPickpocket]

I'm thinking the best approach for this set up is to macro every ability with a tab.
/showtooltip (blank)
/cast (blank)
/targetenemy

At least set up a row with the macroed abilities and a row without macros. At least that way I won't have to manually hit tab all the time.

[TrollShaman]

I find tab targeting in beta to be a lot more responsive now compared to live which is good. However the problem I am finding so far is when there is a clusterfuck going on in melee (i.e often in group content) which makes tab targeting more cumbersome. Echoing what Conjugate said basically.

[Golden]

For me, it depends on how the numbers turn out. If we only do the tab-targeting on 6+, then I'm OK with it since it's not something I'll need to do all the time. It would also mean that FoF and some of the other AoE abilities will result in good cleave and burst AoE which I like. Otherwise, I'll pick something else to play.

[Babylonius]

I'm thinking the best approach for this set up is to macro every ability with a tab.
/showtooltip (blank)
/cast (blank)
/targetenemy

At least set up a row with the macroed abilities and a row without macros. At least that way I won't have to manually hit tab all the time.

This is definitely what I will do. I already have two identical bars for Zsn Sphere switching so one will be the AOE bar and the other the single target bar.

[v1perz53]

Those macros would probably work fine as long as legion tab targetting is smart enough to never select a target outside of melee range, which I do not know if that is the case since I don't have beta. I've heard it is smart enough to not chose far targets, but what about ones just 1-2 yards out of melee range, or ones with weird hitboxes? I don't want the ability to not fire because of ranged issues.

[Conjugate]

Maybe I am just playing wrong but how does the fact that you spam keys work with this macro exactly? the /targetenemy is not limited by gcd, while casting your skills is... do you press every skill only once? That has substential drawbacks because of increased downtime between skills. Also, this is 8 times more clunky than old SEF and I have absolutely no idea how can you be happy about it while being unhappy with old sef.. I can never tell if people are trolling or being serious around these parts^^