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  1. #1
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    Is Frost even worth trying in Mythic environment?

    Is Frost competative at all at the moment or is it Unholy all the way?

    Also, I have a question about Necrotic Plague as frost, when do you use Plague Leech? Before it ends or just when you apply it after spending 2 runes?

  2. #2
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    I'm pretty sure frost is the strongest DK spec currently.

  3. #3
    Depends on a few things such as do you control the ring, what gear you have on, are you competent using BoS, how fast are your kills etc etc.

    Frost is still viable regardless what you hear people say (it's actually still fairly strong). Sure it's not going to beat Unholy with BoS in a perfect situation with good execution. But how often do things go perfect for you when raiding?
    Last edited by Stacie; 2015-12-07 at 12:39 AM.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Frost can't compete with Unholy BoS or with NP on a few encounters at least that used to be the case, but it's still perfectly viable even if it's lacking slightly behind.
    Last edited by mmocf8a5cc7d0f; 2015-12-07 at 12:41 AM.

  5. #5
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    I see people ranking with Unholy better than Frost, and that is with BoS, obviously. But all I see is, the faster you kill the boss, the higher youll rank, thats how it is for all classes. But, after BoS has ended Dks sink faster in DPS than titanic on crack. How is this fun? Is there no way for Frost to be acceptable? (im pretty much forced to play unholy with bos even if I find it dull as fuck, and that is not because I dont know how to do it properly, its just boring as hell.)

  6. #6
    Frost is stronger than it used to be, but Arcane is just superior in every way.
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  7. #7
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Justmintpal View Post
    I see people ranking with Unholy better than Frost, and that is with BoS, obviously. But all I see is, the faster you kill the boss, the higher youll rank, thats how it is for all classes. But, after BoS has ended Dks sink faster in DPS than titanic on crack. How is this fun? Is there no way for Frost to be acceptable? (im pretty much forced to play unholy with bos even if I find it dull as fuck, and that is not because I dont know how to do it properly, its just boring as hell.)
    It's up to you, if you can play BoS it's simply going to preform better than Frost, you can gimp yourself and play frost however. Not sure how you can find Frost interesting if you find BoS boring, spamming HB and FS really isn't very interesting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NoobistTV-Metro View Post
    Frost is stronger than it used to be, but Arcane is just superior in every way.
    I agree Arcane DK's are pretty dope.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    I'm pretty sure frost is the strongest DK spec currently.
    Could you please elaborate this statement?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justmintpal View Post
    Is Frost competative at all at the moment or is it Unholy all the way?

    Also, I have a question about Necrotic Plague as frost, when do you use Plague Leech? Before it ends or just when you apply it after spending 2 runes?
    Yes it's competitive enough, but yes unholy has the option to do more single target burst. Which is what you may or may not need in your setup.

    I recently only started out in mythic and now that we are logging on hellfire assault for what it's worth i was top and ranked in the 95%, i do well and keep up with my unholy death knight also on kormrok, although he is ahead with the NP setup. I don't do to badly on Iron Reaver either, sadly that kill was not logged.

    I will tell you out of having a greater challenge due to BoS play and potential to do more i will go unholy, Once i have enough multi strike gear as i don't feel like regemming and re-enchanting every swap as i don't own enough duplicate gear pieces.

    I swapped before and honestly i was doing about the same with an unholy NP setup as i was doing with frost actually i was doing less on cleave fights.

    Optimal use of Plague Leech, when two runes are depleted and KM is not active.

  10. #10
    I have found it is a battle of what weapon/weapons you have. I was fairly lucky getting my hands on a pair of good 1 handers quickly due to no competition for them but the 2 hander took me a long while. Crafted can cover you a pretty long ways but once you get into mythic it starts to age quickly, and even more so with the upgrade system.

    I have found each has its own strengths. If you got a lot of adds that bunch up in a fight frost is pretty wicked. If it is more about single target burst down of one big add and then the boss unholy is pretty much king. But that doesn't mean the other cannot do the job that the other one does well. It just makes the odds better. Ring control is big too.

    Frosts biggest enemy in a mythic environment is middle of the road mythic raiders living in a world of absolutes. That one spec is is and always will be dominate because of top 10% ranks and such that most of them do not achieve because they don't control the ring, get good multi/crit lines, and don't get junked with stupid debuffs and such which force you away from DPS. Also of course great, great play.

  11. #11
    If you want to be a competitive player play Unholy no matter what. If you have no desire to do competitive damage or don't mind then you can play frost if you prefer.
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  12. #12
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    Don't know how far into progress you are or if you are already in farm, but i would assume you'd wanna push all you can during progress so i would stick with UH for everything. Farm however, no one gives a shit. You can't compete as frost on farm tho since they have no proper burst and considering how short kill times are with ilvl bump and ring, can't beat UH BoS.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    I'm pretty sure frost is the strongest DK spec currently.
    Frost can't compete with Unholy at Mythic levels, even more so after the item level upgrades.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    I'm pretty sure frost is the strongest DK spec currently.
    There is not a single fight where frost is stronger than UH, even without BoS. Single target NP will still beat frost with its recent buff. Just look at logs. Not sure what il you are but anything over 720 frost falls off faster and faster now with most mythic raiders nearing 740 frost stands no chance you'll have to wait till legion and see how it goes but for the sake of progression I strongly advise UH since it's almost mandatory on Gorefiend, Xhul, Manny cuz NP shines as UH for them. If you want to play Frost you can for HFA, Council, Iskar, and maybe Korm just for the HB spam until the guild gears up and your dps just falls off unfortunately. Play what's fun to you, but if it's
    Holding the guild back go UH

  15. #15
    Well, if you compared unholy and frost in a nutshell frost is behind but you can work with frost especially you really like it and in the case BoS isn't your thing frost certainly looks like a somewhat solid choice.

    But if you look at the full image frost is a certainly rather uninteresting spec. Statistically its one of the weakest specs in the game while unholy is basically the bottom of the top tier. Unholy has the tools to produce decent burst without much additional proc rng affecting or even enabling it. NP is a super effective tool for any extreme sustained AoE situation. Frost, well has no niche. Frost just pushes flat numbers, no special stats synergies, mechanical synergies or outstanding talent, its basically your jack of all trades dps spec with pretty mediocre numbers.

    Unholy's ability to adjust its focus is the significant difference between the two specs. In a progress environment on the more difficult progress bosses like gorefiend, xhul'horac, Mannoroth and Archimonde unholy can overall do much more and even be tactic enabling on gorefiend and to a small degree also on archimonde (p2 dog stuff) while frost simply psuhes some numbers. And once you reach farm with maxed ring and full mythic gear with insanely fast kills BoS unholy just has that reliable burst to be atleast visible on skada which doens't make it the bets spec in the world but certainly a decent choice. To be clear "simply pushing some numbers" doesn't mean its bad, its more like almost any other dps spec can do that too and possibly significantly better. Frost fits the description "not bad but outclassed".

    In the event that you can't play BoS or for whatever reason simply don't want to then frost is a pretty decent choice, especially if you have more fun with it. If you really have more fun playing one spec over another then you will comparatively perform better with the spec you like more and if there isn't a worlds difference between specs then the favored spec will be a very viable if not outright better choice. This is the case for frost currently, so if you really enjoy frost it will be viable for you and a slong as you personally don't play weak it will be viable for mythic raiding any day. There were frost parses during early mythic progression (not for all bosses but enough) and the difference grows with gear, so the weaker your gear the less significant the difference. (aside from NP padding)

    And since the post is already so long I'll cover it just in case. While "its viable if you really like it" might sound a bit stupid from time to time and like on of those idealistic sentences you hear adults saying to naive children, it contains some truth on anything below progessional level and and even there to a degree fun affects your performance, if you enjoy what you're doing you are more invested and also learn significantly faster and pay more attention to the detail. If you dislike sometihng its the other way around.

    Tl;dr
    SO in short. Frost DW (NOT 2h thats really dead) is viable for mythic progression. Frost is not lightyears behind unholy but the difference is still significant if you play BoS well or can make super effective use of NP. Defile unholy is weaker than defile frost. The difference between the two grows with gear. Frost is currently in the category solid jack fo all trades which is simply outclassed looking over all specs and classes rather than being trash.

    So if you want to play frost and don't play it atrociously yourself then just play it. If the difference of being frost or unholy isn't tactical difference (like gorefiend mythic) then it might never make a difference even if you would do more damage as unholy as most current bosses are more about execution than brutally maximizing the last bit of damage and the actually required damage lies well within frosts capacities.

  16. #16
    The problem with frost is that Blizzard, and they would never outright say this but it is pretty evident from their actions, has a hierarchy of where they want specs to fall. For DK's, unholy is their favorite, and the spec that gets the most attention. Until this season, unholy was always superior in PVP, and nearly always superior in PVE. But its more than just numbers, it is the attention Blizzard gives to specs. Frost has had major mechanical problems for a very long time, but Blizzard has always preferred to just give bandaid patches to frost rather than truly fix the problems. Ultimately unholy will always be better, because that is how Blizzard wants it. That doesn't mean the frost can't work in progression raids, but if DPS rankings are your thing then it would be prudent to just learn to love unholy and only use frost for those few encounters per expansion where frosts burst AOE is desirable.

    Better yet, if DPS rankings are your thing switch to a mage. They will always have one of the top 2 best all around DPS specs.

  17. #17
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    Honnestly comes down to how serious you're taking it and your guild expects you to take it. If you wanna do the best you can for your guild and get the highest numbers you learn to perfect unholy. If it's pretty relaxed with friends all just fun and laughter, but through mythic, frost is just fine.

  18. #18
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    I hate current state of UH DK and BoS( i played uh in brf and hm), it really rely on your entire group, that's retarded, so i play frost. My guild is doing logs so:
    Hellfire assault 98% - 60 rank
    Iron Reaver 93% - 350
    Kormrok - 98% - 40 rank
    Hellfire High Council - 98% - 68 rank
    I dont count kilrogg beacuse i wans in vision so obviously i will be high in rank. But it only prooves that Frost DK isnt dead, and some ppl can still do big number, and play better than other ppl with uh+bos

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dedzio View Post
    I hate current state of UH DK and BoS( i played uh in brf and hm), it really rely on your entire group, that's retarded, so i play frost. My guild is doing logs so:
    Hellfire assault 98% - 60 rank
    Iron Reaver 93% - 350
    Kormrok - 98% - 40 rank
    Hellfire High Council - 98% - 68 rank
    I dont count kilrogg beacuse i wans in vision so obviously i will be high in rank. But it only prooves that Frost DK isnt dead, and some ppl can still do big number, and play better than other ppl with uh+bos
    Those are relative to other Frost DKs. If you compare your damage relative to all DK specs then you'll clearly see Frost lagging behind UH.

    This is especially true if you're in a guild whose DPS is high enough to kill Reaver on mythic before the 1st flight. At that point if you're not playing UH BoS you're literally slowing down your guild's farm for that week.

  20. #20
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    If you raid mythic i would assume you would want to everything you can to push further as a team, i mean how do you feel if you see a mage playing frost while arcane is miles ahead and you guys are lacking dps, and the response you get from the guy is "cba", this is you playing frost DK simple as that, you are gimping your raids progress. no one gives 2 shits what you play on farm.

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