The number of players it took to kill 30 mythic bosses

[hotspurz]

Interesting thread, being an officer and the leader of recruitment in my guild I know all to well how turnover can really change a guild dynamic overtime, one of the key things I have learn't over my 8 years of WoW is recruit the better fit for the guild sometimes not necessarily the better player.

[desert-wind]

14 of our original Imperator kill are still in the raid team. 3 of the others are still in the guild but can't play full time due to irl changes.
13 of our original Blackhand kill are still in the raid team. Our players had a series of major irl problems here so in reality our bench was actually our core raid team now.
16 of our original Archimonde kill were in the raid team all expansion.

On a side note all but one of our original garrosh 10 kill are still in the guild.

As GM I value my players and all but one long term player that has left our guild for a 'better' guild has come back.

I'd say most of our turnover happens outside of our core 15-18 players and there has probably been a fair bit in that spot. I'm actually going to spend some time to see how many unique raiders there were out of interest.

[Deleted]

14 of our original Imperator kill are still in the raid team. 3 of the others are still in the guild but can't play full time due to irl changes.
13 of our original Blackhand kill are still in the raid team. Our players had a series of major irl problems here so in reality our bench was actually our core raid team now.
16 of our original Archimonde kill were in the raid team all expansion.

On a side note all but one of our original garrosh 10 kill are still in the guild.

As GM I value my players and all but one long term player that has left our guild for a 'better' guild has come back.

I'd say most of our turnover happens outside of our core 15-18 players and there has probably been a fair bit in that spot. I'm actually going to spend some time to see how many unique raiders there were out of interest.

Some guilds are exceptions, usually when a guild is full of people with the same skill lvl, nobody feels like somebody is dragging them down, nobody feels like dead weight, nobody feels like they could do better in some other guild.
I'v been in this kind of guild once, 15 of their mythic Kargath players are still in the raid and happily progressing 11/13mythic

[Deleted]

Some guilds are exceptions, usually when a guild is full of people with the same skill lvl, nobody feels like somebody is dragging them down, nobody feels like dead weight, nobody feels like they could do better in some other guild.
I'v been in this kind of guild once, 15 of their mythic Kargath players are still in the raid and happily progressing 11/13mythic

Yeah though in those groups you still have to beat the "someone's is offline" boss :>

[hotspurz]

14 of our original Imperator kill are still in the raid team. 3 of the others are still in the guild but can't play full time due to irl changes.
13 of our original Blackhand kill are still in the raid team. Our players had a series of major irl problems here so in reality our bench was actually our core raid team now.
16 of our original Archimonde kill were in the raid team all expansion.

On a side note all but one of our original garrosh 10 kill are still in the guild.

As GM I value my players and all but one long term player that has left our guild for a 'better' guild has come back.

I'd say most of our turnover happens outside of our core 15-18 players and there has probably been a fair bit in that spot. I'm actually going to spend some time to see how many unique raiders there were out of interest.

Pretty fantastic to have 16 of your original Archimonde to be in the raid team all expansion, We have 5 from Imperator in the original team but this was due to moving forward and upwards as a guild so the replacement was needed, in terms of people who just left due to not being able to raid we only lost 5, but we did kick a fair few more for not being able to perform.

[maddnesskhaz]

One of the hard parts (in the flexible raid size era) is that difference between Heroic and Mythic.

Not only do you have a numbers and mechanics increase; you go from being able to handle a few people away on any given night, to just outright not being able to raid if you're even one person short. The mindset of being able to raid with whoever turns up, as compared to having to ride the bench, is often a completely different kind of player.

[desert-wind]

Pretty fantastic to have 16 of your original Archimonde to be in the raid team all expansion, We have 5 from Imperator in the original team but this was due to moving forward and upwards as a guild so the replacement was needed, in terms of people who just left due to not being able to raid we only lost 5, but we did kick a fair few more for not being able to perform.

Thanks tekniqz, this is furah / desert from a clash of kings. Your guild definitely has or had a different approach to this expansion than we did, much more progression orientated vs our more casual nature. You guys went through a lot of players to build your current team but it seems like it was worth it? Do you think you will have the same level of turn over going through the next expansion or have you reached a more stable point?

We definitely still went through a large number of players, particularly healers, due to just complete lack of ability in the oceanic scene. To be honest I wish that 20 man had never occured because it has been far too much effort to keep the bottom end of our roster viable for mythic progression for the entire year while keeping the casual atmosphere.

[Acidbaron]

If this is a progression based raiding group and not one with roots as friendship this is perfectly normal and okay.

You go through quite a few people for several reasons, i doesn't have to be anything bad either it can be as simple as no longer being able to meet the required time and attendance required of you, i personally just leave when that happens since it's not fair to the organizers in place unless it's for a short period of course.

I know i could go through 5 people per month easily at times being it recruits or just people that no longer played good enough or dropped of the radar. You have this less in more closer guilds since there's a sense of loyalty.

[hotspurz]

Thanks tekniqz, this is furah / desert from a clash of kings. Your guild definitely has or had a different approach to this expansion than we did, much more progression orientated vs our more casual nature. You guys went through a lot of players to build your current team but it seems like it was worth it? Do you think you will have the same level of turn over going through the next expansion or have you reached a more stable point?

We definitely still went through a large number of players, particularly healers, due to just complete lack of ability in the oceanic scene. To be honest I wish that 20 man had never occured because it has been far too much effort to keep the bottom end of our roster viable for mythic progression for the entire year while keeping the casual atmosphere.

We only have had 4 people leave the actual guild out of everyone we have kicked, they would rather quit the game then raid with any other guild so we have a large loyalty aspect here which has been a huge plus, progression has allowed our core to stick together and it has been fantastic.

Overall we have a built a very stable guild and I think turnover is what it is in WoW, it just happens as people move on as long as your core is able to stay stable over years you should have no problem, but yes the OCE scene is lacking in good players atm.

[maddnesskhaz]

We only have had 4 people leave the actual guild out of everyone we have kicked, they would rather quit the game then raid with any other guild so we have a large loyalty aspect here which has been a huge plus, progression has allowed our core to stick together and it has been fantastic.

Overall we have a built a very stable guild and I think turnover is what it is in WoW, it just happens as people move on as long as your core is able to stay stable over years you should have no problem, but yes the OCE scene is lacking in good players atm.

OCE definitely has a limited recruitment pool, particularly if they're not a guild on Frostmourne Alliance.

[hotspurz]

OCE definitely has a limited recruitment pool, particularly if they're not a guild on Frostmourne Alliance.

The OCE pool should improve allot when Legion comes around, till then its very difficult to recruit great players

[Styxxa]

I've been considering a move to NZ. I'll keep Frostmourne Alliance in mind!

[Alsonia]

Having recently killed Archimonde, I started to reflect on my mythic raiding experience in WoD.

What really got me thinking was how many players my guild actually needed to kill 30 mythic bosses. So I went back through the logs.

Only 9 players from our Kargath kill were there for our Archimonde kill. And 2 of those were gone for all of BRF.

In total, 60 players contributed in one way or another to our mythic kills in WoD.

I was pretty astounded by that number. And I wonder, based on your experience, if that's really high, or what you've also experienced, or if it's simply pretty average and considered "stable".

My guild has seen 40-ish since we hit Gorefiend a month ago. People come in and get their 5/13 Mythic and bail on us. Thanks Blizz for making the Gorefiend wall so incredibly daunting to most players that they just skip past it!

[Brilynn]

Just went back to see our comp for Kargath [M]. We have lost 2 people out of that comp. I feel like we've definitely lost more but I don't want to look into it...

Juuuust kidding, that was the most recent kill. First kill we've lost 9 of those people....

[Durbi]

Cool thread really. Gives you something to think about.

Just went over our very first kill in Warlords, which was normal Kargath. Out of 28 players that participated in that kill 12 of them are no longer raiding, so we have 16 people that stayed with us for the whole expansion, which is pretty good I think.

In total, over the course of this entire expansion we've gone through 46 players in total.

[Deleted]

It's more important how many you keep rather than how many you lose. Meaning, if you have 19 or 18 stable players and you only change the rest is fine. If you have only 10-12 stable players it's a serious problem.

The total number would not show which of the 2 it is. e.g. if you rapidly change the last 2 needed every few days the total number will be up, similarly with rarely changing 5 more needed rarely.

[TheKaz]

Love the premise of this thread as someone who GMs and does recruitment for one of the top 2 night guilds. I often wonder if the number of raid days your guild commits to has a meaningful impact on turnover.

We maintain a roster of 23-25 raiders. 7 of us have been here for basically the entirety of WoD mythic progression (both tanks, 2 melee dps, 2 ranged dps, 1 healer) ... We're on Mythic Arch now, for what it's worth.

I guess it's crazy to turn over 70% of a mythic raid group throughout an expansion, but that seems to be the reality of mythic raiding. Generally speaking, I ballpark the shelf life of a typical Mythic raider at 3-4 months.


--edit: Just to add, the most common reason we've lost people is really to "quitting WoW" ... Of the raiders we cared to lose, I can think of only one that is still actively raiding. The others just stopped playing WoW due to work, burnout, or something along those lines.

[Deleted]

It's the most severe holiday season for gaming now. You'll see a lot more leaving I bet. In fact most of the guilds I've seen dissolving did it around this time of year.