The No Fly List fallacy

[hakujinbakasama]

I believe there is a conversation which needs to be had about American Politics which while tied to some divisive issues are not completely limited to them. This in particular might be the most polarizing example in the current climate.

Like them or hate them, I'm not sure you could completely prove that The Huffington Post is all in on one side of the isle. That might be why the following link is so interesting.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5617599

Please note it was submitted well over a year ago. It highlights the complete vagueness of the process in which the average person would rationally believe to be no where near our current reality. In fact, this system is just another in a line of poorly written pieces of legal justification in order to cut corners; it is another failure in our continuation of post 9/11 and Patriot Act sillyness.

So when I cannot turn on the tv, radio, or a forum without eventually seeing or hearing how the likes of the "real American enimies" (republicans) and their domestic terrorist allies (the nra) do not support new legislation which would bar people on the no fly list from having or purchasing guns, I get annoyed.

The following might be of some interest to you if you're new to this issue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug19.html

Like I said, this is an example of a greater problem. Remember the controversy over the NDAA? If you don't please go read the following.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/dont-be-fo...tion-amendment

We are constantly "tricked" or attempted to be so because those who do are literal professionals at such. When someone says "this is our national defense and military support bill, do you not want national defense" they plead to emotion. You certainly wouldn't want to be accused of not supporting our nations defense right?

It's beyond disgusting and I'm seriously wishing that people, even those who are not from the USA here, would wake up and start to see through this bullshit. It isn't like the UK is free of these tactics; I just try not to throw stones when I live in the worlds largest glass house.

[Orange Joe]

I believe there is a conversation which needs to be had about American Politics which while tied to some divisive issues are not completely limited to them. This in particular might be the most polarizing example in the current climate.

Like them or hate them, I'm not sure you could completely prove that The Huffington Post is all in on one side of the isle. That might be why the following link is so interesting.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5617599

Please note it was submitted well over a year ago. It highlights the complete vagueness of the process in which the average person would rationally believe to be no where near our current reality. In fact, this system is just another in a line of poorly written pieces of legal justification in order to cut corners; it is another failure in our continuation of post 9/11 and Patriot Act sillyness.

So when I cannot turn on the tv, radio, or a forum without eventually seeing or hearing how the likes of the "real American enimies" (republicans) and their domestic terrorist allies (the nra) do not support new legislation which would bar people on the no fly list from having or purchasing guns, I get annoyed.

The following might be of some interest to you if you're new to this issue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug19.html

Like I said, this is an example of a greater problem. Remember the controversy over the NDAA? If you don't please go read the following.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/dont-be-fo...tion-amendment

We are constantly "tricked" or attempted to be so because those who do are literal professionals at such. When someone says "this is our national defense and military support bill, do you not want national defense" they plead to emotion. You certainly wouldn't want to be accused of not supporting our nations defense right?

It's beyond disgusting and I'm seriously wishing that people, even those who are not from the USA here, would wake up and start to see through this bullshit. It isn't like the UK is free of these tactics; I just try not to throw stones when I live in the worlds largest glass house.

Until you can show me everyone on that list is violent and shouldn't have a gun I agree that it shouldn't be passed.





http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5617599.html

[satimy]

Due process

[Adam Jensen]

This is why I'm hesitant to join the rage against the GOP, for the first time in a long time. I think they might even be right about this. The No Fly list is not a good system. Innocent people get on that list all the time. It's very flawed. Of course we shouldn't be allowing terrorists to have guns, and I don't believe the GOP or the NRA believes otherwise, but the list is not a good indicator whether someone is a terrorist or not.

[Venant]

This is why I'm hesitant to join the rage against the GOP, for the first time in a long time. I think they might even be right about this. The No Fly list is not a good system. Innocent people get on that list all the time. It's very flawed. Of course we shouldn't be allowing terrorists to have guns, and I don't believe the GOP or the NRA believes otherwise, but the list is not a good indicator whether someone is a terrorist or not.

If you look at the politics of the matter, the democrats have been doubling down over and over on Syria policy and now on the issue with Syrian refugees that they had been using up until recently to demagogue and call half the country racist bigots. Then the Paris attacks happened, and their response was to go all in on their demagoguery. Then San Bernardino happened, a mass casualty terrorist attack on American soil that was about to deal a political deathblow to the democrat agenda after months of constantly doubling down and implying that everyone who questioned that policy was a bigot.

It is clearly a political move to shift the narrative to a gun debate in order to avoid catastrophic political damage and loss of credibility. The real sad part is that it is a strategy being played over the bodies of 14 victims of the attack.

Of course, the democrats are being completely reckless in regards to the game they are playing here. If another attack occurs on American soil, they have now created an atmosphere where the fall out will not just be political damage, it will be damage to the very fabric of society that could push people into dangerous and reactionary ways of thinking.

[Dadwen]

Old Ted should have been on the no-drive list......

but ya dumb idea, some list you don't even know you're on and unless you're someone famous prob have no chance of getting removed from it.

[Kujako]

Due process

No longer needed thanks to post 9/11 paranoia!

[Jimmy Woods]

So when I cannot turn on the tv, radio, or a forum without eventually seeing or hearing how the likes of the "real American enimies" (republicans) and their domestic terrorist allies (the nra) do not support new legislation which would bar people on the no fly list from having or purchasing guns, I get annoyed.

The republicans may be correct now when they aren't in power, but let's not forget who was in control when the no fly list massively expanded. The GOP.
Who was in control when the Patriot act passed? The GOP.
Who has presidential contenders wanting to create databases of US citizens and track them with microchips? The GOP.

It's fucking easy as hell to run your mouth off against big government when you are in a do-nothing congress or a political "outsider", but whenever the Republicans get in office they sure seem to love shitting on constitutional rights and expanding big government only to then bitch about those programs when Democrats have control.

As far as restricting sales of guns to people on the no-fly list, CLEARLY it's just a political ploy by Democrats. I don't understand how this isn't obvious. Republicans have voted to repeal Obamacare 60+ times with a 0% chance of that passing JUST for politics. Democrats know this won't pass but they want Republicans vocally on the side of selling guns legally to potential Islamic terrorists cause it's good politics. Your base wants action on an issue, it would seem logical to show them you are listening.

[satimy]

No longer needed thanks to post 9/11 paranoia!

I think it's needed more than ever

[Kujako]

I think it's needed more than ever

Naw, just think of the no fly list as audience participation in the security theater performance!

[Glnger]

The republicans may be correct now when they aren't in power, but let's not forget who was in control when the no fly list massively expanded. The GOP.
Who was in control when the Patriot act passed? The GOP.
Who has presidential contenders wanting to create databases of US citizens and track them with microchips? The GOP.

It's fucking easy as hell to run your mouth off against big government when you are in a do-nothing congress or a political "outsider", but whenever the Republicans get in office they sure seem to love shitting on constitutional rights and expanding big government only to then bitch about those programs when Democrats have control.

this part:
if I could use words more gooder this is what i would have i would done of said