[RET] LEGION mobility issues aka: I catch people how again?

[ruiizu]

As far as Blizzard goes, I trust them implicitly to not only consider this but JUST DO IT if they feel like it. The sad part is, history repeats itself again if they actually swing this way, cuz screwing the whole Ret Player base yet again without giving a damn hasn't concerned them the last couple times if you ask me.

And yeah guys, I'm still alive and kicking. It's just that I'm really not motivated to discuss anything in particular of the new crap the Devs try to force down our throat. But I'm here, watching...waiting...until something/anything positive is listed in the builds.

It's strange because over time they've caved to many classes needing and/or requesting more mobility, but Paladin really hasn't been one of them. Even more bizarre is how much players tend to enjoy abilities that influence movement and position, yet it's something they won't do for the class. Even DKs, which are pretty slow, can strongly influence enemy position (and yes, Death Grip is hella fun).

I really believe Turalyon's Might baseline would be a pretty good compromise to not having Emancipate anymore. Long Arm of the Law doesn't make much sense given how Judgment works right now anyway. Steed Charge, on the other hand, is really appropriate looking; it's almost sad to not see it as a centerpiece of ALL Paladin mobility.

[Reghame]

ruiizu, this is what i think as well. The only real reason why we ever needed things like long arm and speed of light in the first place was because how everyone else was given those tools over time and forced rets ( and paladins as a whole mind you) to need much more mobility in both PVE and PVP. with legion we can see a lot of this mobility being tuned down but to the same extent ret is actually worse baseline for mobility than it was in the start ( PoJ was an early talent that was really good back then)
honestly i can accept ret not having any mobility at all since i never really picture ret as being the class that is always moving quick at you. ( long arm is a problem in this regard, 45% movementspeed with high uptime means we are quite sticky as of live, even nerfed to even half the uptime is still pretty big) if mobility is going to be truly a problem as far as PVE is concerned when bosses still have a bunch of quick shit melee have to move out of, maybe Pursuit of Justice could be baseline.

Just remember, mobility is only an issue when you make it an issue. just because you cannot hit your target all the time does not mean that its a problem. Its when your the only one not able to do it and everyone else is moving twice as fast as you at all times is when its a problem.

[ruiizu]

ruiizu, this is what i think as well. The only real reason why we ever needed things like long arm and speed of light in the first place was because how everyone else was given those tools over time and forced rets ( and paladins as a whole mind you) to need much more mobility in both PVE and PVP. with legion we can see a lot of this mobility being tuned down but to the same extent ret is actually worse baseline for mobility than it was in the start ( PoJ was an early talent that was really good back then)
honestly i can accept ret not having any mobility at all since i never really picture ret as being the class that is always moving quick at you. ( long arm is a problem in this regard, 45% movementspeed with high uptime means we are quite sticky as of live, even nerfed to even half the uptime is still pretty big) if mobility is going to be truly a problem as far as PVE is concerned when bosses still have a bunch of quick shit melee have to move out of, maybe Pursuit of Justice could be baseline.

Just remember, mobility is only an issue when you make it an issue. just because you cannot hit your target all the time does not mean that its a problem. Its when your the only one not able to do it and everyone else is moving twice as fast as you at all times is when its a problem.

I don't disagree; in classic WoW I played a Warrior and to be honest, there was a lot of time I spent out of range. You couldn't charge in combat, and Intercept was a 30 sec CD unless you were deep Fury. My only complaint I think is when you're out of range and you just can't do anything but auto-run. I don't mean that you just can't do damage, but you just have no abilities to use at all. It's an issue of dullness, you know?

If they don't decide to go with turalyon's baseline or steed charge somewhere in there, I do hope they give us something to do while out of range. It's why I used to love Cleanse; sure I wasn't killing someone while running, but I was removing debuffs and strengthening myself on my trip.

For PvP at least, they definitely should give us some abilities to use out of range, even if they aren't attacks. CC, buffs to our attack when we do get in range, heals, etc are all valid options. I just don't want to get stuck as the class that does nothing until they get to the target. Even Warrior has Throw. lol

[johnnyd2]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...40506837778432

Well, thats a dissapointment
"Fantasy" is seriously starting to get on my nerves

[ruiizu]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...40506837778432

Well, thats a dissapointment
"Fantasy" is seriously starting to get on my nerves

That's kind of awful reasoning, but more importantly, Steed is really really bad AND it's talented. I've asked if there will be any form of baseline mobility at all, or are we just auto-running forever.

[Deleted]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...40506837778432

Well, thats a dissapointment
"Fantasy" is seriously starting to get on my nerves

"[...]inconsistent with the class fantasy.", they say. Meanwhile, Holy is still porting around.
But heeeeeeeyyy, finally the guys debating "Ret mobility iz fine cuz we getz pony charge" can do so rightfully because now it's official!
Thanks Blizz for taking away a kinda crappy to use and shitty placed (talentwise) but otherwise cool 30sec gap closer, and fixing the "gap" (oh I love the irony xD ) with a 4sec incombat useable pony ride with 60sec CD.
Thanks...for literally nothing again!

Sorry if I'm sounding pessimistic (call it what you want) but I'm frustrated here. As a "vanilla veteran" maining Ret since I started to play, it is truely frustrating to be screwed by the Devs yet again. Sad part is, I can't take the easy way of the mass and simply "reroll" to mage or warrior...or DH. I don't know exactly why but I can't bring myself to it, the game is boring without my Ret.

[Schattenlied]

Guys... Spam responses to that tweet, this shit can't stand... a 4 sec sprint on a 1 min CD won't come anywhere near enough to fix our mobility.

Let them know this is not OK, and be loud about it!

[johnnyd2]

Guys... Spam responses to that tweet, this shit can't stand... a 4 sec sprint on a 1 min CD won't come anywhere near enough to fix our mobility.

Let them know this is not OK, and be loud about it!

did so, i dont PVP, and im pissed because i think a holy blade you can teleport too is awesome ^^
and how is that not "fantasy"?

[Eapoe]

Not starting a fight, but what exactly is letting a holy Pally port all over the place? Just not seeing it in the talent calc . "Response to Nuin's last post"

[Schattenlied]

Not starting a fight, but what exactly is letting a holy Pally port all over the place? Just not seeing it in the talent calc . "Response to Nuin's last post"

Lvl 30 row left side.

[Deleted]

Not starting a fight, but what exactly is letting a holy Pally port all over the place? Just not seeing it in the talent calc . "Response to Nuin's last post"

I linked it in my last post, but look up Beacon of Hope if the link doesn't work for you. It's a 45sec cd teleport to a beacon. But I could name Prot aswell, running around with a freaking huge shield and (naturally as a tank) heavy armor, yet able to charge their opponents via Crusader Strike in PvP. It seems "class fantasy" just only doesn't work for Ret that way.

Guys... Spam responses to that tweet, this shit can't stand... a 4 sec sprint on a 1 min CD won't come anywhere near enough to fix our mobility.

Let them know this is not OK, and be loud about it!

Already did so: https://twitter.com/Nuin_/status/698354329678434304

[Super Kami Dende]

Whats that? Paladins are getting fucked in the ass more and more?

Afrasiabi pls go.

[ruiizu]

I gotta be honest here. Based on what abilities Prot has gained, I don't think we're gonna be PvPing with Ashbringer unless there are some really major changes. Their mobility is incredibly better and their CC is far superior, yet their damage doesn't look like it'll be half bad either AND they can D up.

I mean c'mon. They can talent Divine Steed to 30 seconds, with 8 second duration in PvP (plus tramples targets and immunes CC). Not only that, but Divine Steed is baseline for Prot.

Is the answer to mobility just respec? Sorry to be melodramatic, but it's suddenly sinking in, and I really wanted to truck things with Ashbringer. =|

[Deleted]

If things don't change until Legion launch I think I won't play ret anymore.

[Deleted]

I gotta be honest here. Based on what abilities Prot has gained, I don't think we're gonna be PvPing with Ashbringer unless there are some really major changes. Their mobility is incredibly better and their CC is far superior, yet their damage doesn't look like it'll be half bad either AND they can D up.

I mean c'mon. They can talent Divine Steed to 30 seconds, with 8 second duration in PvP (plus tramples targets and immunes CC). Not only that, but Divine Steed is baseline for Prot.

Is the answer to mobility just respec? Sorry to be melodramatic, but it's suddenly sinking in, and I really wanted to truck things with Ashbringer. =|

Slowly the idea that we get all this shit from the devs BECAUSE we get Ashbringer forms in my head. "You get that almighty blade you ever wanted, be pleased and shut your trap", or something the like.

SPOILER ALERT!
Seriously, with this skillset it's crystal clear what happens to Tirion at the Broken Shore. While everyone and their mother moved their a**es out of harms way he was left behind cuz his fat a** got no mobility! If this will be our fate aswell, I'd much rather break this cursed blade in half myself and run around with some gimp weapon, but have my mobility >.<

[Vintersol]

If things don't change until Legion launch I think I won't play ret anymore.

As long as the game is still in alpha, you shouldn't be afraid. If we reach the beta state and nothing has happened, we should be really worried.

[Deleted]

Yeah I know.
It's just the way they said it in tweet... Something like "Well the sword was garbage so we removed it. On the other hand we let you the crappy poney at lvl 90 as a gift so be thankful ! :trollface: ".

:-/

[Deleted]

Divine steed is a fairly horrible mobility tool, it's cooldown is far too long to be of any real help. I'm also just not keen on it design wise. I think one of the best things they could do for us is allow Execution Sentence to be activated a second time to crash down on the target, consuming ES to do the final burst instantly. That would be a much more fluid way of gapclosing and would only be limited by ES 10 second CD, but has a counter in that ES can be dispelled before you have a chance to activate it, if the enemy are very fast.

Honestly as it stands now we have worse mobility than live with virtually no range attacks. I can't see it staying this way.

They could go a different route and make us extremely hard to kill with a lot of healing and anti train mechanics, and make us juggernaughts that won't go down and cause everyone in the team to be a lot harder to kill. That might be an interesting approach which may not even need that much mobility. It would also be more true to lore in my view.

I've always thought of Ret as more of an attrition class than a wings bursty one, even though it rarely plays out that way ingame. But I remember in the old days it was our toughness and ability to outlast and recover while the enemy wore themselves down that made us strong. Such things could be accomplished again by giving us a stronger version of ret aura, upping our defensive capabilities and so on. Then we wouldn't need mobility so much.

[rubenmsalles]

Well, Cobrak uploaded this video
Ret duels vs ww monk, recorded february 6 of 2016
lets see if ret is amazing and all great with defensives in support fantasy (role that doen's fit in actual game), or need a serious dev to work and fix on it

enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4rpOuevI4

[Deleted]

Well, Cobrak uploaded this video
Ret duels vs ww monk, recorded february 6 of 2016
lets see if ret is amazing and all great with defensives in support fantasy (role that doen's fit in actual game), or need a serious dev to work and fix on it

enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4rpOuevI4

The damage right now is pretty high - as was exepcted. But this shows also how bad things are if the damage for ret doesn't stay as high as it is , or even higher.
Because even tough the Ret player was pretty damn bad and missused half of his spells it shows that as soon as bubble is gone , ret is just as good as dead.
And as it seems to me , the majority of rets actually defense reliase on their hard castable heals , but these are easily countered in a real PvP enviroment against especialy against better players.
Also this showcases pretty good how things are going to be in PvP for ret against any range and most meele classes and how easily we are going to get kited to death.
Ironicly this creates a situation were we will probably be the most support reliant specc in game. Now the question is , will it be viable or not? From the way i see it , ret is pretty much crap in both Arena and Rated BG's with all the tools available right now.
No real cc , no real slow exept for this 30sec cd crappy joke thing , no real mobility and Divine Steed is crap for us , because as it is we are far to reliant on our own hardcastable heals , so we have to decide between a better shitty def , or a near useless mobility tool called Divine steed.

As for now the only thing i can say about Ret in regards to PvP is .R.I.P.