Pew study finds that middle class has shrunk to less than half of the population.

[Deleted]

The top and bottom should be improving at relatively even rates, not the top improving by leaps and bounds while the bottom remains relatively stagnant or even falling behind in many areas.

Dude, you get that because of immigration. Immigration adds to the bottom class rather than top class. Kinda like if russian olygarch would want to boycott Putin and all moved to USA. Then the top class would get bigger!

ps: The olygarch did this in UK, a lot of them moved to London and funnel their money there.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Then the bottom 50% has to acquire marketable skills and innovate. The last thing we want is a fat, lazy, society where everyone gets handed luxuries without regard for productivity.

This handwave doesn't account for jack shit. Workers are more skilled now than they've ever been at any other point in history, and yet people continue to justify their worsening position in society.

[PC2]

This handwave doesn't account for jack shit. Workers are more skilled now than they've ever been at any other point in history, and yet people continue to justify their worsening position in society.

Yes people are more skilled and educated in general, another aspect of progress. That doesn't mean disposable income is going to up, you have to continuously acquire skills to be relatively competitive.

[Independent voter]

Jobs are coming back to the US, thing is they are using extreme amounts of automation at these US plants so that companies have to hire a very few people. A plant that might've hired 20,000 back in 80's only needs 2,000 today. You can't legislate against a plant in the US to make them hire more people.

[Fugus]

Then the bottom 50% has to educate themselves and innovate. The last thing we want is a fat, lazy society where everyone gets handed luxuries without regard for productivity.

I am not even going to bother refuting this level of wrong too much to bother with so I will just say this.

Get that rhetoric out of your ears and actually educate yourself and practice critical thinking as your current view of the situation is heavily skewed against the facts and does not fix the problems as you don't even understand and know what the problems are.

[Deleted]

This handwave doesn't account for jack shit. Workers are more skilled now than they've ever been at any other point in history, and yet people continue to justify their worsening position in society.

Well that's in general, not for everyone. There are still unskilled workers, like the McD clerk for example. They make minimum wage because they could be replaced any time by a tablet so customers can order and a PoS where they insert their CC and make the payment. They aren't really needed they are kept "just because some customers like human interaction". But then you go to a different country/culture like Japan and they have it auto, even vending machines!

[PC2]

I am not even going to bother refuting this level of wrong too much to bother with so I will just say this.

Get that rhetoric out of your ears and actually educate yourself and practice critical thinking as your current view of the situation is heavily skewed against the facts and does not fix the problems as you don't even understand and know what the problems are.

Society is getting better, but there will be more competition for high paying positions. Technological advancement makes life better overall, but it doesn't necessarily mean more people will statistically be within the middle class.

[Fugus]

Jobs are coming back to the US, thing is they are using extreme amounts of automation at these US plants so that companies have to hire a very few people. A plant that might've hired 20,000 back in 80's only needs 2,000 today. You can't legislate against a plant in the US to make them hire more people.

Reminds me of when Apple made some announcement that they were moving a manufacturing plant back to the USA which sounded great till you found out that the china plant employed 2,000 people roughly while the US plant was so automated it would only employ about 200. So basically they were only bringing it back because that level of automation made it cheaper to make here than it did to make there and ship.

- - - Updated - - -

Society is getting better, but there will be more competition for high paying positions. Technological advancement makes life better overall, but it doesn't necessarily mean more people will statistically be within the middle class.

Thank you for proving my point.

On that note, I am off to bed. AFK.

[PC2]

Thank you for proving my point.

On that note, I am off to bed. AFK.

No problem.

[Rhine101]

Can I ask what your expenses are and is that 25k after taxes or before?

Raped on car payments due to bad credit. 325 per month.

Usaa insurance is 90 per month

Rent 750 per month

Phone 60 per month.

I got a loan for my couch due to inpatience, 80 per month/ 1600 total.

Cable/ net is 50 but I only want the internet so that's gonna go soon.

Gas and food is what? 50 per week if I eat like mad and drive around sightseeing.

I take home like 2300 per month. I'm not exactly balling but I am going to the philipines next year to see my son and work on a fiance visa. I should have a much better job by then. Also, I work 32 hours per week. It's kinda nice.

Forgot electricity. It's 25-35 per month cause I like the dark. I'm a vampire like that.

[Wells]

Then the bottom 50% has to educate themselves and innovate. The last thing we want is a fat, lazy society where everyone gets handed luxuries without regard for productivity.

Or we could do away with everything that makes it harder to unionize and easier to fire workers just because you don't like them. My suggestions have the advantage of being concrete policy goals instead of vague platitudes.

[Fugus]

Raped on car payments due to bad credit. 325 per month.

Usaa insurance is 90 per month

Rent 750 per month

Phone 60 per month.

I got a loan for my couch due to inpatience, 80 per month/ 1600 total.

Cable/ net is 50 but I only want the internet so that's gonna go soon.

Gas and food is what? 50 per week if I eat like mad and drive around sightseeing.

I take home like 2300 per month. I'm not exactly balling but I am going to the philipines next year to see my son and work on a fiance visa. I should have a much better job by then. Also, I work 32 hours per week. It's kinda nice.

Forgot electricity. It's 25-35 per month cause I like the dark. I'm a vampire like that.

Was just about to log out before I read this.

If you are taking home about 2,300 per month, that is $27,600 annually net. Assuming the taxes you pay there are similar to here, you are actually making somewhere between 33-35k per year. A great deal more than the $25k you were talking about. Which isn't bad money for a job, it isn't great money, but it isn't bad.

Ok, NOW off to bed.

[Independent voter]

The last labor report saw another 200,000 jobs added to the economy. I would like to see what kind of jobs these are. The Obama administration has added a ton of jobs to the economy compared to the previous administration, but I'm guessing that these new jobs aren't like daddy's $42 an hour job at the Ford plant back in the 80's.

[PC2]

Or we could do away with everything that makes it harder to unionize and easier to fire workers just because you don't like them. My suggestions have the advantage of being concrete policy goals instead of vague platitudes.

Too bad your concrete policy isn't very good.

[Rhine101]

Was just about to log out before I read this.

If you are taking home about 2,300 per month, that is $27,600 annually net. Assuming the taxes you pay there are similar to here, you are actually making somewhere between 33-35k per year. A great deal more than the $25k you were talking about. Which isn't bad money for a job, it isn't great money, but it isn't bad.

Ok, NOW off to bed.

No I was being honest. 1100 of that is tax free. My job pays me 10 and hour for 32 hours and the 1100 is from other income. So I take home less that 40k.

Even with your calculations, it's still less than 40k a year so my point still stands. If you need a minimum of 40k to not struggle then the area you live in cost way too damn much or you are doing something wrong

[Paula Deen]

How are you going to get people with high school educations good paying jobs in a global economy? That's the problem that nobody has a solution to.

By not having 20 Years Exp required to do menial desk work that a 5th grader could do. Thats how.

[Deleted]

By not having 20 Years Exp required to do menial desk work that a 5th grader could do. Thats how.

It goes both ways. When everyone has a college degree you need to ask for experience in any job because with the state of higher education you can't assume they are good at doing anything when they can major in useless and trivial stuff.

And since they need to pay you minimum wage from day 1 they can't risk hiring the wrong person. That's the state govt. got you in. W/o minimum wage you could have said "Oh, company X, hire me for 1 month, I'll take 1/2 the minimum pay and I'll prove to you I'm worth it". Than they will take you since if you suck at least they got you cheap. And you have an incentive to do good to get that full pay and the job!

People now are going by "ok, here's my degree in gender studies, HIRE ME!"

[Rhine101]

By not having 20 Years Exp required to do menial desk work that a 5th grader could do. Thats how.

FYI about that. I'm trying to help BTW.

a lot of people have experience but don't know it. I see that as a sort of knowledge check. If a place asks you for experience with Microsoft word, that 4 years of college and years of random fanfic counts.

[Captain N]

And people wonder why I face palm when the Conservatives on this forum put down low-wage workers while making meager earnings themselves. I'll say it now and I'll say it again -- every single worker is being taken advantage of by their employer. You can put your head in the sand and think that life is going to be awesome all the time...until you get fired/laid off and end up with all that education and skill working at Starbucks. Even if you keep learning there's no guarantee that your job will be there tomorrow. Every day there's people laid off with decades of experience replaced by someone fresh out of college who will work for a third of the pay rate. Well when you're not protected from At-Will Employment it's the dice you roll every day you go to work.

[PC2]

And people wonder why I face palm when the Conservatives on this forum put down low-wage workers while making meager earnings themselves. I'll say it now and I'll say it again -- every single worker is being taken advantage of by their employer. You can put your head in the sand and think that life is going to be awesome all the time...until you get fired/laid off and end up with all that education and skill working at Starbucks. Even if you keep learning there's no guarantee that your job will be there tomorrow. Every day there's people laid off with decades of experience replaced by someone fresh out of college who will work for a third of the pay rate. Well when you're not protected from At-Will Employment it's the dice you roll every day you go to work.

Get another job, acquire more skills, or go on welfare. It isn't the end of the world.