Still poor mobility in legion

[Deleted]

Nothing new for movement I see, it's pretty scary, going to be the standard target dummy in pvp again sadly. I think circle is a talent as well and no longer base line what the hell.

[Shifterstorm]

Nothing new for movement I see, it's pretty scary, going to be the standard target dummy in pvp again sadly. I think circle is a talent as well and no longer base line what the hell.

I don't PvP atm, but I know for raiding burning rush is not only the best but it is AMAZING. You know how warlocks fix their poor mobility? You take Burning Rush (WHICH IS A TOGGLE) and rush around the world with a cool ass fire animation behind us (even cooler if you have green fire). I'm not upset that circle is now in the same talent row as Burning Rush. Gives us the choice between instant teleportation or continuous movement speed.

IMO its one of the best movement skills in the game. I think people underestimate the fact that its a toggle. Ya it drains your life but its not enough to freak out about. Very little especially if its not on long.

TLR Take Burning Rush and blaze onward

[Deleted]

I don't PvP atm

If you did, you'd know how fucking useless Burning Rush is. Seriously, the entire talent is one giant pile of stinking garbage. And it doesn't change that you need to hardcast like a PvE mob.

[Deleted]

making circle a talent is so lazy and stupid

almost as lazy and stupid as making shadowburn a talent

[Deleted]

making circle a talent is so lazy and stupid

almost as lazy and stupid as making shadowburn a talent

To be fair, new Shadowburn got some nice upgrades from that. But we could've had that without a Talent.

[Stefanus]

Yes this issue will need to be addressed as well. They should definitely give us demoniac circle as a baseline and rework that talent tier and reverse it to where it is now in WoD, meaning remove burning rush (because why? and who the hell uses that anyway) and put dark bargain, soul link and sacrificial pact as a talent of choice in that tier.

[Sylar Hao]

When you say "poor mobility" you actually want to mean "no mobility at all", right?

[Phoenexis]

making circle a talent is so lazy and stupid

almost as lazy and stupid as making shadowburn a talent

You mean almost as lazy and stupid as making Backdraft, Shadowfury, Death Coil and Howl of Terror talents?

[gruxxar]

You mean almost as lazy and stupid as making Backdraft, Shadowfury, Death Coil and Howl of Terror talents?

exactly, might as well make us choose between immolate & conflagrate as talent options, cause we can't have too many casts next to chaos bolt :<. too complicated

[Uzkin]

To be fair, new Shadowburn got some nice upgrades from that. But we could've had that without a Talent.

* refunds only 0.5 chaos bolts upon kill (down from 1)
* base gcd probably nerfed from 1 sec to 1.5 secs
* due to the new design, its damage will have to be nerfed for pvp reasons

Nice upgrades indeed. We'll get another ruined spell.

[soradakey]

I don't PvP atm, but I know for raiding burning rush is not only the best but it is AMAZING. You know how warlocks fix their poor mobility? You take Burning Rush (WHICH IS A TOGGLE) and rush around the world with a cool ass fire animation behind us (even cooler if you have green fire). I'm not upset that circle is now in the same talent row as Burning Rush. Gives us the choice between instant teleportation or continuous movement speed.

IMO its one of the best movement skills in the game. I think people underestimate the fact that its a toggle. Ya it drains your life but its not enough to freak out about. Very little especially if its not on long.

TLR Take Burning Rush and blaze onward

What? Let's take a deeper look at this shall we. I'm not counting aoe utility that affects everyone nearby.

DK - Shit
Druid - Dash, Three level 15 talents, cat form
Hunter - Cheetah, Disengage, Can dps while moving
Mage - Blink, Blazing speed
Monk - Doesn't even need to be discussed
Pally - Shit, but not as bad as dk
Priest - Feather/Bubble speed up, Glyphed Life Grip
Rogue - Sprint, Three level 60 talents
Shaman - Ghost Wolf, Unleash Elements
Warrior - Charge, Heroic Leap, Safeguard
Warlock - A circle with a 30 second cd that needs to be pre placed, and a 50% speed increase that slowly kills you.

Personally I'd put them only in front of Pallies and DK's.

[Sylar Hao]

Doing some research to compare mobility tools and damaging on the move (instant or not) spells each ranged spec have compared to Destro in Legion in current beta patch:
(- = baseline)
(-- = talent)
(--- = arctifact)

Hunters: They can literally do everything on the move except one or two chanelled abilities. No point in listing them.

Balance:
- Moonfire: spammable instant+DoT.
- Sunfire: spammable aoe instant+DoT.
- Starfall: instant AoE, cost Astral Power but with enough Astral Power of it you can cast a few in a row. Meanwhile Rain of Fire is no longer instant.
- Owlkin Frenzy: now baked into Moonkin Form baseline, chance on getting a free instant cast on any damaging spell. They stole Backlash from us.
- Starsurge: instant with Perk in WoD, and baseline instant in Legion. It has charges. One more charge than Conflagrate.
- In top of that: Cat Form for +30% bonus speed if needed. Not the best option, but it's something.
-- Stampeding Roar (pvp).
-- Displacer Beast, 30 sec cd.
-- Wild Charge: 15 sec CD, usable to disengage or to jump a target, either friendly or enemy.
-- Stellar Drift: increases the radius and damage of Starfall and when the druid is inside this radius he/she can cast while moving... that's 10 secs of free movement while damaging from casts and AoE.
-- Collapsing Stars (talent): strong instant + DoT.
-- Twin Moonfire (PvP): Moonfire also strikes a nearby enemy.
--- New Moon: instant damage, 10 sec cd. (Artifact).

Elemental:
- Shocks: 3 spells with no cd and they don't share cd either.
- Earthqueake Totem: now a totem, and it's instant.
- Lava Surge: chance on getting instant Lava Burst.
- Thunderstorm: not the best move to get close and deal damage, but it's an option.
- Ghost Wolf: +30% movement speed.
-- Lightning Lasso: 30 sec CD: instant DoT + stun.
-- Gust of Wind: a jump forward, most likely like Demonic Leap.
-- Fleet of Foot: +20% mov. speed after leaving ghost wolf.

Arcane
- Blink 15 sec CD. Best ability to reposition in my opinion, instant without travel time.
- Displacement: 1.5min CD, for 4 secs Blink doesn't have CD.
- Arcane Explosion. Spammable instant AoE.
- Arcane Barrage, 3 secs CD. You usually want to use it for burst when fully charged, but it's a low CD tool.
- Frost Nova, 8 sec CD: not great, but it's something.
- Cone of Cold, 12 sec CD: not great, but it's something.
-- Static: 1min cd: next 4 Arcane Blasts are instant.
-- Supernova: instant AoE, 25 sec CD.
-- Icy Flows: next spell is castable on the move. 3 charges.
-- Nether Tempest: isntant for AoE Dot.
-- Arcane Orb: instant AoE travelling, 15 sec CD.
-- Presence of Mind (PvP). Next spell is instant. 1min CD.
--- Blink reduced to 9 sec CD through the arctifact.

Fire
- Blink
- Frost Nova.
- Dragon's Breath
- Scorch: spammable on the move, that allows you get instant Pyroblasts.
- Inferno Blast: 12 secs CD with two charges (Conflagrate anyone?). No GCD and can be cast while casting other spells.
- Hot Streak for instant Pyroblasts.
-- Flame on: 30 sec CD: grants 2 charges of Inferno Blast.
-- Blast wave: Instant AoE. 25 sec CD.
-- Icy Flows.
-- Living Bomb: AoE spammable isntant.
-- Meteor: lots of AoE damage, isntant 1 min CD.
-- Flare up (PvP): extra charge on Inferno Blast and they won't be spent on targets unaffected by Ignite...
--- Phoenix Reborn: instant

Frost
- Blink.
- Frost Nova.
- Pet damage.
- Freeze (pet ability).
- Ice Lance, instant. Better with icicles, but it's an option.
- Frozen Orb: 1 min CD. Can be reset by Frostbolt.
- Icicles.
-- Ice Nova: 25 sec CD instant AoE.
-- Comet Storm: 1min CD instant AoE.

Shadow
- SW: Pain. Spammable DoT.
- SW: Death. 8 sec CD instant execute.
- Void Bolt: instant damage that extends SW:P and VT by 3 sec... Old Fel Flame anyone?
- Shadowy Apparitions. Extra free damage.
-- Shadow Crush: instant AoE Bolt. 30 sec CD.

If my memory don't fail me, they haven't lost a single mobility tool or damage on the move spell as baseline. Now onto warlocks

Warlocks
- Pet damage.
-- Demonic Circle: former baseline movement tool that wasn't instant and you had to place it before.
-- Burning Rush: self-damaging extra movement speed. Help those rogues to kill you easily.
-- Kil'jaeden's Cunning: removed.

Affliction
- Pet damage.
- Corruption: basic instant spammable DoT.
- Agony: special instant spammable DoT.
- Life Tap: spammable damage to yourself.
-- Mana Tap: spammable burning mana.
-- Mortal Coil: 45 sec non damaging tool.
-- Siphon Life: instant spammable healing DoT.
-- Phantom Singularity: AoE DoT that heals the warlock. 1 min cd.
-- Soul Swap (PvP)

Demonology:
-- Doom: instant spell that deals damage after 20 sec... wow.
-- Shadowflame: SS generator with 2 charges on 14 sec that deals damage and applies a stacking DoT.
-- Call Observer (PvP): Summons a minion that protects an ally damaging the closest enemy for 30 sec. 1min CD, instant.
-- Implosion: instant, no cd, that trades all imps for damage.
-- Summon Inquisitor: 24 sec CD that summons a minions that deals AoE ranged damage for 18 sec.
--- No arctifact so far.

Destruction
- Life tap (facepalm)
- Conflagrate: 12 sec CD 2 charges.
-- Shadowburn: instant damage tool better used for fishing SS.
-- Mana Tap (another facepalm)

Now... which is the turret spec? Tick tack.. tick tack..

[Xandy]

I feel very strongly that Demonic Circle should go back to baseline and be replaced with something better. Perhaps... Demonic Leap??

[Baconeggcheese]

Really not worried about it, everyone's getting the shit pruned out of them and they're not going to leave us in an unplayable situation so... it'll be fine.

Locks have always been one of the best classes to be in the game, despite every.single.pre-xpac people *the sky is falling* about the changes.

[takracobedah]

Just make burning rush standard and add talent to allow you to cast while moving if it is active at the cost of increasing the damage you take while active. Done and done.

[Agnhar]

If you are gonna complain that other classes have something you don't at least research before, blazing speed is gone and cone of cold is frost only nothing to do with arcane or fire also Arcane Explosion is a really crappy ability since you have to go in melee to use it risking yourself and don't forget you need to be at 4 stacks of Arcane Charges before using Nether Tempest Sylar Hao

[Baconeggcheese]

Le greener grass tho

[daerellin]

Balance:
- Moonfire: spammable instant+DoT.
- Sunfire: spammable aoe instant+DoT.
- Starfall: instant AoE, cost Astral Power but with enough Astral Power of it you can cast a few in a row. Meanwhile Rain of Fire is no longer instant.
- Owlkin Frenzy: now baked into Moonkin Form baseline, chance on getting a free instant cast on any damaging spell. They stole Backlash from us.
- Starsurge: instant with Perk in WoD, and baseline instant in Legion. It has charges. One more charge than Conflagrate.
- In top of that: Cat Form for +30% bonus speed if needed. Not the best option, but it's something.
-- Stampeding Roar (pvp).
-- Displacer Beast, 30 sec cd.
-- Wild Charge: 15 sec CD, usable to disengage or to jump a target, either friendly or enemy.
-- Stellar Drift: increases the radius and damage of Starfall and when the druid is inside this radius he/she can cast while moving... that's 10 secs of free movement while damaging from casts and AoE.
-- Collapsing Stars (talent): strong instant + DoT.
-- Twin Moonfire (PvP): Moonfire also strikes a nearby enemy.
--- New Moon: instant damage, 10 sec cd. (Artifact).

Not to detract from the overall message of your post, but just to clarify for boomkin:

Owlkin frenzy procs off of single target attacks against the moonkin, not from damaging spellcasts. There is an artifact perk however that lets it proc randomly while in combat.

Starsurge no longer has charges. It requires astral power, forcing a choice in usage between it and starfall (similar to WoD, but again, with astral power and not charges).

As far as I can tell from watching streams, we no longer have Dash in cat form.

We no longer have Stampeding Roar baseline.

Starfall lasts 7 or 8 seconds now and costs a large amount of astral power, so Stellar Drift, while really cool, isn't as good as you'd think.

Taking Collapsing Stars costs us Celestial Alignment, meaning we lose a high %damage cooldown that enables double dotting with one GCD. Without perfect usage, this talent can end up being a big waste.


Again, I don't want to lessen your message with respect to warlocks, but maybe since you're getting a lot of these wrong, other classes/specs don't have it as great as you think.

[Sylar Hao]

Not to detract from the overall message of your post, but just to clarify for boomkin:

Owlkin frenzy procs off of single target attacks against the moonkin, not from damaging spellcasts. There is an artifact perk however that lets it proc randomly while in combat.

Starsurge no longer has charges. It requires astral power, forcing a choice in usage between it and starfall (similar to WoD, but again, with astral power and not charges).

As far as I can tell from watching streams, we no longer have Dash in cat form.

We no longer have Stampeding Roar baseline.

Starfall lasts 7 or 8 seconds now and costs a large amount of astral power, so Stellar Drift, while really cool, isn't as good as you'd think.

Taking Collapsing Stars costs us Celestial Alignment, meaning we lose a high %damage cooldown that enables double dotting with one GCD. Without perfect usage, this talent can end up being a big waste.


Again, I don't want to lessen your message with respect to warlocks, but maybe since you're getting a lot of these wrong, other classes/specs don't have it as great as you think.

As you can see from my singature I play a druid, so I know the mechanics, but yeah, sorry, I did mistakes while typing:
- I know Owlking Frenzy is only from melee attacks, I don't know why I typed spells. Basicly it's the same effect called Backlash Destruction suddenly lost and Moonkin suddenly gained in WoD.
- I didn't know about the Starsurge though, I read it on wowhead and rewrote it. So I guessed it was the same mechanic. But still is a semi-spammable spell with enough astral power, not saying it's efficient, but if you need to move, it's a neat option.
- I point out that Stampeding Roar is on the PvP talent now, but it's still a mobility option.
- About Starfall I read it lasts 10 sec, but even if it's 8 it's a good number, and even if it costs a lot, I've been watching streaming and you can actually gain more than enough Astra Power in a Starfall duration to cast another right after. So you can use Stellar Drift as a kiting tool where you run in circles dealing damage.
- Collapsing Stars. Ok, you trade your big CD for it. We literally lost our big CD (Dark Soul) and got nothing in exchange. Even if you think it may be a big waste, you still have that option when it comes to moving. We don't

I'm not talking here about how efficient is every spell or ability, of course there are better options depending on PvP, boss encounter, soloing, etc, I'm just stating the huge amount of options other casters when moving is needed compared to Des-Turret-ion. Destruction is my beloved spec and I'm hating how every patch after MoP we've been losing damage and mobility options.

And, don't worry, I get you wanted to correct some mistakes I made, and I appretiate it.

[Deleted]

Really not worried about it, everyone's getting the shit pruned out of them and they're not going to leave us in an unplayable situation so... it'll be fine.

Locks have always been one of the best classes to be in the game, despite every.single.pre-xpac people *the sky is falling* about the changes.

You sure about that? Cause the only viable warlock spec this expansion has been affliction in pvp. I don't think locks are top tier either, not sure about that though.

Warlocks always had mobility problems. I really think demonic circle should be baseline and you should be able to target the portal tbh. I'd like gateway to be instant outside combat too or bring back soul harvest in combat too.