Justice Scalia and the "Mismatch Phenomenon"

[Crissi]

Ah, really! Was it actually significantly tougher than the institution you transferred to? I'm meeting a few advisors who have shown interest over the winter and am very uncertain if it's the best destination for grad school. I have a few distant relatives and friends that went there and its difficult to get unbiased feedback. Think the only negative they can say is that it is a big time commuter school.

yeah, Washington is actually quite tough. Its been listed as a top tier university for some time. The work load is intense compared to UNT, and the curriculum is definately more intensive.

[Spectral]

yeah. I think had I stayed I would have graduated middle to low end of the pack, and not gottun much of anything after. in UNT i was able to succeed because of its less stressful pace, and it allowed me to succeed to the point of getting accepted into USC. Now i hope USC leads to something *crosses fingers*

Yeah, my undergrad was a bit like you're describing UNT - just a really good learning atmosphere, but not the kind of cutthroat intensity that I've heard is pervasive at some of the big time universities. I was really, really young when I went to undergrad, so I think that might have been best for me. Shrug. Hard to know, but I'll take the outcome.

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Economists have been mind fucking me into thinking the pacific northwest is the shizz nitz for millenials. But then I come on MMOC and you all knock me out of it.

FWIW, I love it up there, at least from work trips and conferences. Seattle, Portland, Eugene, and Victoria (yeah, yeah, it's Canada, but similar vibe) are all great towns with great beer and great people and great running and biking! I can't speak to the economics, and that's kinda individual anyway (if you find a job that fits you, anywhere is good, if you don't, everywhere sucks), but I'd surely move there if the conditions were right.

[THE Bigzoman]

yeah, Washington is actually quite tough. Its been listed as a top tier university for some time. The work load is intense compared to UNT, and the curriculum is definately more intensive.

Really off-topic here, but I think I love economics too much to stop doing it.

Might address some math deficiencies this year and pursue a masters.

[Spectral]

Really off-topic here, but I think I love economics too much to stop doing it.

Might address some math deficiencies this year and pursue a masters.

It's one of the few Ph.D.'s that's actually pretty lucrative also. You really can't go wrong with Econ. It's interesting, it's evolving, it's valuable, and can't really be made obsolete. Do it!

[Crissi]

Really off-topic here, but I think I love economics too much to stop doing it.

Might address some math deficiencies this year and pursue a masters.

Then keep doing it! I find a combination of passion + hard work actually does make dreams feasible economically.

anyways, back on rails: I think the concern that Scalia stated, as much as i normally disagree with him, is valid. Some kids just shouldn't go to schools they aren't ready for. This is especially true when you start hitting top tier schools, where the workload and stress is much harder than one usually expects. HOWEVER, Im not convinced that Texas's problem is with AA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_House_Bill_588 explains the 10% issue.

[Stop Pretending]

I've never understood the phenomenon of giving less qualified individuals preferance over more qualified individuals because of skin color to meet quotas. It does more harm then good, and had continually proven that over time, the idea is flawed and rarely works.

[primalmatter]

This thread seems like infraction bait to be honest.

[Spectral]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_House_Bill_588 explains the 10% issue.

This might be one of those classic things that sound good, but don't work so well in practice. I think it seems worthwhile to keep trying and see if it can work out a bit better, but as someone that's fairly determinist about intellect, I'm not real optimistic.

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This thread seems like infraction bait to be honest.

Not really. I comment on stuff like this a lot and haven't had an infraction that stuck in over a year.

[Crissi]

This might be one of those classic things that sound good, but don't work so well in practice. I think it seems worthwhile to keep trying and see if it can work out a bit better, but as someone that's fairly determinist about intellect, I'm not real optimistic.

They're going to tinker with it, but I overall greatly disagree with it. in an ideal world where all high schools are equally good, the policy would work. However, you get a shitty HS and then you end up admitting students who have no business at UT.

[Spectral]

They're going to tinker with it, but I overall greatly disagree with it. in an ideal world where all high schools are equally good, the policy would work. However, you get a shitty HS and then you end up admitting students who have no business at UT.

Which, of course, really is a zero sum game. There's only so many spots at in demand schools, so some kid gets screwed out of his dream of getting to throw up the horns because he was unlucky with schools.

Then again, that kid could always just get better grades and it wouldn't be an issue.

[Crissi]

Which, of course, really is a zero sum game. There's only so many spots at in demand schools, so some kid gets screwed out of his dream of getting to throw up the horns because he was unlucky with schools.

Then again, that kid could always just get better grades and it wouldn't be an issue.

Well thing is, this doesn't include private schools, since private schools don't actually rank their kids. So a kid in the top 25% in their private school class shouldn't get in over someone who was in top 10% in a shitty HS? I just don't buy it; their capabilities will be radically different because of the difference in difficulty between the schools.

in 2008, 81% of freshman came from top 10%. Thats an absurd amount, because that leaves 19% left for kids who have superior capabilities in better HS, or for kids in schools that dont bother to rank their kids.

[anntheman]

yeah, Washington is actually quite tough. Its been listed as a top tier university for some time. The work load is intense compared to UNT, and the curriculum is definately more intensive.

That is interesting to hear. I've mostly been targeting UW because of it's location. Berkeley is great but we're an hour from Silicon Valley and San Francisco and I'd like to explore non-remote opportunities while in school. Having really only experienced my school and having professors consistently say that it doesn't matter since our majors (engineering) are governed by ABET, I was quite hoping that it was true.

[Crissi]

That is interesting to hear. I've mostly been targeting UW because of it's location. Berkeley is great but we're an hour from Silicon Valley and San Francisco and I'd like to explore non-remote opportunities while in school. Having really only experienced my school and having professors consistently say that it doesn't matter since our majors (engineering) are governed by ABET, I was quite hoping that it was true.

Its also incredibly expensive. when I went there in 05-07, it was 28k a year for an out of state student >.<

[Spectral]

Well thing is, this doesn't include private schools, since private schools don't actually rank their kids. So a kid in the top 25% in their private school class shouldn't get in over someone who was in top 10% in a shitty HS? I just don't buy it; their capabilities will be radically different because of the difference in difficulty between the schools.

in 2008, 81% of freshman came from top 10%. Thats an absurd amount, because that leaves 19% left for kids who have superior capabilities in better HS, or for kids in schools that dont bother to rank their kids.

This is going to be an awful analogy because it doesn't really matter, but this all makes me think of how the Boston Marathon qualifying process works. I won't go into details, because it's boring as shit for people that don't care about running, but I qualified this year, but didn't get in because they reserve slots for non-qualifiers, which means you need to be ~2 minutes faster than the BQ time and I was only ~1 minute faster. While I'm irritated, my attitude is mostly, "well, suck it the fuck up and kill it then".

I feel the same way for the private school kids. I empathize. It sucks. It's not fair. But if you really want to go, just kick the shit out of the SAT (or ACT, I don't know which one is preferred there) and you'll be in.

I have no actual argument on this, to be clear, just articulating a gut feeling.

[anntheman]

Which, of course, really is a zero sum game. There's only so many spots at in demand schools, so some kid gets screwed out of his dream of getting to throw up the horns because he was unlucky with schools.

Then again, that kid could always just get better grades and it wouldn't be an issue.

There's always the argument that they'd end up going to a nearly as good school. Unfortunately, though, there are the drawbacks specifically if the student in question is in a state with less prestigious schools. The next tier will likely come with non-resident tuition.

[Crissi]

This is going to be an awful analogy because it doesn't really matter, but this all makes me think of how the Boston Marathon qualifying process works. I won't go into details, because it's boring as shit for people that don't care about running, but I qualified this year, but didn't get in because they reserve slots for non-qualifiers, which means you need to be ~2 minutes faster than the BQ time and I was only ~1 minute faster. While I'm irritated, my attitude is mostly, "well, suck it the fuck up and kill it then".

I feel the same way for the private school kids. I empathize. It sucks. It's not fair. But if you really want to go, just kick the shit out of the SAT (or ACT, I don't know which one is preferred there) and you'll be in.

I have no actual argument on this, to be clear, just articulating a gut feeling.

Actuall,y even for this law, the SATs dont cocunt. Its merely the GPS. a kid with a mix of A's and B's can have a 1500 SAT score (old system), but still not get in because the top 10% included A's with piss poor SAT scores (like, 1000). Then the rest were filled with A's with 1500's.

[anntheman]

Its also incredibly expensive. when I went there in 05-07, it was 28k a year for an out of state student >.<

Ah. How were you paying for school? Did finances play a factor in your studies? Feel free to chalk me off as the NSA.

[Crissi]

Ah. How were you paying for school? Did finances play a factor in your studies? Feel free to chalk me off as the NSA.

I paid for it though stocks in Exxon, which my grandparents made as soon as I was born. Same with my sis. I wouldnt recomend going there as an OOS student if you dont already have the finances without loans, unless you want to attend one of their top majors

[xskarma]

This thread seems like infraction bait to be honest.

It's not. I specifically said the topic could be reopened, so feel free to discuss it. Doesn't mean we'll tolerate racism though, but if people just avoid that particular angle to this story then they should be fine.

[Hooked]

Scalia is a wise man.