Air is finite, it's time to look at what we do differently.

[Nightstorm]

"There are two doors. Behind Door Number One is a completely sealed room, with a regular, gasoline-fueled car. Behind Door Number Two is an identical, completely sealed room, with an electric car. Both engines are running full blast. I want you to pick a door to open, and enter the room and shut the door behind you. You have to stay in the room you choose for one hour. You cannot turn off the engine. You do not get a gas mask."



http://fusion.net/story/242603/arnol...-clean-energy/

[Deleted]

But where does the electricity the engine uses come from? Coal plant? Solar plant? Biomass plant? Nuclear plant?

[Revi]

But where does the electricity the engine uses come from? Coal plant? Solar plant? Biomass plant? Nuclear plant?

Idd. If it's from coal it could actually be worse than a gas-driven car.

[Endus]

1> The Earth isn't a closed system. We are constantly gaining, and losing, massive amounts of energy. That's why the Sun feels warm; solar radiation is constantly warming the Earth and adding energy into the system. We're also losing energy into space. It's a balanced system (more or less; it swings up and down, but overall hits a balance), but it isn't a closed system.

2> In your example, you removed oxygen generation from the mix, when we have a ton of oxygen being created on this planet. And the increased CO2, which is the risk you're alluding to, directly increases the growth rates of plants, which consume said CO2 to generate O2.

3> Where did the power for your electric car come from? That's stored energy, whereas the gasoline-powered car is generating its own. That's not an honest comparison. A car fueled by power from an older coal plant is almost certainly less carbon-friendly than a modern internal combustion engine with a low emissions rating, in terms of CO2 per "tank".


As much of a green-tech guy as I am, your argument is like talking about the evils of H20 by saying "if water's so good for you, why don't you sit at the bottom of a pool for an hour, huh?"

[Nightstorm]

1> The Earth isn't a closed system. We are constantly gaining, and losing, massive amounts of energy. That's why the Sun feels warm; solar radiation is constantly warming the Earth and adding energy into the system. We're also losing energy into space. It's a balanced system (more or less; it swings up and down, but overall hits a balance), but it isn't a closed system.

2> In your example, you removed oxygen generation from the mix, when we have a ton of oxygen being created on this planet. And the increased CO2, which is the risk you're alluding to, directly increases the growth rates of plants, which consume said CO2 to generate O2.

3> Where did the power for your electric car come from? That's stored energy, whereas the gasoline-powered car is generating its own. That's not an honest comparison. A car fueled by power from an older coal plant is almost certainly less carbon-friendly than a modern internal combustion engine with a low emissions rating, in terms of CO2 per "tank".


As much of a green-tech guy as I am, your argument is like talking about the evils of H20 by saying "if water's so good for you, why don't you sit at the bottom of a pool for an hour, huh?"

The problem is we are adding more CO2 than oxygen is being created and it will not get worse and population increases, not to mention deforestation impact on oxygen production particularly in the amazon.

We are dirty energy now but green energy and fusion power is just around the way.

[Ripster42]

Idd. If it's from coal it could actually be worse than a gas-driven car.

Could being the operative word there. Depends on the plant and the car.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem is we are adding more CO2 than oxygen is being created and it will not get worse and population increases, not to mention deforestation impact on oxygen production particularly in the amazon.

We are dirty energy now but green energy and fusion power is just around the way.

The person you're talking to is essentially on the same side as you, he just doesn't want you making absurd strawman like arguments that just make his side look bad.

[Curlyfry]

This is one of the worst arguments I've seen in awhile. Good job.

[zenkai]

This is one of the worst arguments I've seen in awhile. Good job.

I was thinking the same thing, unless he is mage and can just conjure electricity.

Batteries are also great for the environment, I throw mine in the trash all the time.

[Endus]

The problem is we are adding more CO2 than oxygen is being created and it will not get worse and population increases, not to mention deforestation impact on oxygen production particularly in the amazon.

We are dirty energy now but green energy and fusion power is just around the way.

CO2 isn't poisonous. Heck, even CO isn't. What's an issue is if there's a lack of 02, which isn't a danger. Not remotely, yet. CO2 and CO are only an issue in closed circumstances because they'll push the O2 out, leaving you nothing to breathe; you don't die of carbon monoxide poisoning because CO is poisonous, really, but because it's heavier than air and it tends to sit in your lungs and block the oxygen.

And reforestation measures have already started to address the issues of logging. Reforestation has overtaken deforestation in North America and Europe, and the logging in the Amazon has been slowing. This is a problem for which we already have a solution, and we've begun implementing it. It just hasn't fully fixed the issue, yet.

[Nightstorm]

This is one of the worst arguments I've seen in awhile. Good job.

This is not an argument nor is it up for debate. If you think we can use up all the oxygen and pump all our waste into the air you are a fool.

- - - Updated - - -

1> The Earth isn't a closed system. We are constantly gaining, and losing, massive amounts of energy. That's why the Sun feels warm; solar radiation is constantly warming the Earth and adding energy into the system. We're also losing energy into space. It's a balanced system (more or less; it swings up and down, but overall hits a balance), but it isn't a closed system.

2> In your example, you removed oxygen generation from the mix, when we have a ton of oxygen being created on this planet. And the increased CO2, which is the risk you're alluding to, directly increases the growth rates of plants, which consume said CO2 to generate O2.

3> Where did the power for your electric car come from? That's stored energy, whereas the gasoline-powered car is generating its own. That's not an honest comparison. A car fueled by power from an older coal plant is almost certainly less carbon-friendly than a modern internal combustion engine with a low emissions rating, in terms of CO2 per "tank".


As much of a green-tech guy as I am, your argument is like talking about the evils of H20 by saying "if water's so good for you, why don't you sit at the bottom of a pool for an hour, huh?"

More Carbon Dioxide is not necessarily good for plants.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Increasing-Carbon-Dioxide-is-not-good-for-plants.html

[Puri]

That is a pointless comparison unless they also put the generator that provided the battery charge in the same room and let it run as long as it took to charge the battery to provide the energy for one hour.

[Masark]

CO2 isn't poisonous. Heck, even CO isn't. What's an issue is if there's a lack of 02, which isn't a danger. Not remotely, yet. CO2 and CO are only an issue in closed circumstances because they'll push the O2 out, leaving you nothing to breathe; you don't die of carbon monoxide poisoning because CO is poisonous, really, but because it's heavier than air and it tends to sit in your lungs and block the oxygen.

No, CO is directly poisonous. It converts hemoglobin into carboxyhemoglobin, making it incapable of carrying oxygen.

I think you're mixing it up CO poisoning with nitrogen asphyxiation or something.

[stabetha]

That is a pointless comparison unless they also put the generator that provided the battery charge in the same room and let it run as long as it took to charge the battery to provide the energy for one hour.

and lets not forget you would also have to sit in a pool of all the nasty chemicals that are involved in the process of making the batteries too.

[Random010203]

No, CO is directly poisonous. It converts hemoglobin into carboxyhemoglobin, making it incapable of carrying oxygen.

I think you're mixing it up CO poisoning with nitrogen asphyxiation or something.

Careful with your vocabulary. Prior poster claimed that CO2 is not POISONOUS, and he's correct. Here's why:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poisonous

CO2 by itself is not poisonous (as in the direct assimilation/inhalation of CO2), HOWEVER, in greater magnitudes it is toxic, which is a completely different word.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/gases/...-Poisonous.htm

Is CO2 poisonous? No, can it kill you in greater quantities? Yes. It may be just semantics but the context of these words is very critical to his argument.

[Ripster42]

Careful with your vocabulary. Prior poster claimed that CO2 is not POISONOUS, and he's correct. Here's why:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poisonous

CO2 by itself is not poisonous (as in the direct assimilation/inhalation of CO2), HOWEVER, in greater magnitudes it is toxic, which is a completely different word.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/gases/...-Poisonous.htm

Is CO2 poisonous? No, can it kill you in greater quantities? Yes. It may be just semantics but the context of these words is very critical to his argument.

Look at the quote.

CO2 isn't poisonous. Heck, even CO isn't.

Edit: Get owned luc54!

[luc54]

Careful with your vocabulary. Prior poster claimed that CO2 is not POISONOUS, and he's correct. Here's why:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poisonous

CO2 by itself is not poisonous (as in the direct assimilation/inhalation of CO2) in greater magnitudes it is toxic, which is a completely different word.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/gases/...-Poisonous.htm

Is CO2 poisonous, no, can it kill you, yes. It may be just semantics but the context of these words is very critical to his argument.

Endus said:

Heck, even CO isn't.

Which isn't true as CO is toxic.

[Tierbook]

Careful with your vocabulary. Prior poster claimed that CO2 is not POISONOUS, and he's correct. Here's why:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poisonous

CO2 by itself is not poisonous (as in the direct assimilation/inhalation of CO2), HOWEVER, in greater magnitudes it is toxic, which is a completely different word.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/gases/...-Poisonous.htm

Is CO2 poisonous? No, can it kill you in greater quantities? Yes. It may be just semantics but the context of these words is very critical to his argument.

Carbon Monoxide and carbon dioxcide are 2 different gasses.

[Random010203]

1> The Earth isn't a closed system. We are constantly gaining, and losing, massive amounts of energy. That's why the Sun feels warm; solar radiation is constantly warming the Earth and adding energy into the system. We're also losing energy into space. It's a balanced system (more or less; it swings up and down, but overall hits a balance), but it isn't a closed system.

A closed system doesn't refer to the transfer of matter particulates, energy can still be exchanged and it be considered a closed system.

- - - Updated - - -

Carbon Monoxide and carbon dioxcide are 2 different gasses.

Was referring to when Endus said CO2 isn't poisonous as Ripster quoted in his post as well.

[Zarc]

This is one of the worst arguments I've seen in awhile. Good job.

This is pretty much what I intended to say as well...

If I understand the OP correctly he is concerned about the climate and he wants humanity to stop adding CO2 to the atmosphere. Of course I agree with that, I think most do.

[zenkai]

This is pretty much what I intended to say as well...

If I understand the OP correctly he is concerned about the climate and he wants humanity to stop adding CO2 to the atmosphere. Of course I agree with that, I think most do.

I'm trying to make all the CO2 I can to feed the trees, Boo Humans YAY Trees.