So Did They Just Take The Carrot Away?

[akaTheDude]

"In Legion, as soon as you zone into a PvP instance, the stats on your gear will be nullified, and you'll be given a pre-determined set of stats that's uniquely configured for your specialization. Furthermore, any set bonuses, enchants, Legendary bonuses, or trinket effects will be deactivated"

The only contribution your gear will make to your overall power is through a small modifier based on your average item level. For every point that your average item level increases, your pre-determined PvP stats will increase by 0.1%. That means a 25 item level difference between two players only results in a 2.5% difference in stats, compared to the 25% difference it makes today. There’s still a little incentive to improve your gear – a concept we think is important for World of Warcraft – but the benefits are much less pronounced.


I know there are people that love for PvP to be completely about skill and not gear. But on the other side of the fence ,I know there are people that like to get in there and grind out the best gear to be able to have an upper hand in PvP content.

So with this being said, is there anything to be gain by grinding BGs to get gear since there wont be a "need" for high end PvP gear because 2.5% isnt much... When I read this it sounds like they have taken another carrot out of the game for people to chase.

Anyone else feel this way or am I reading this wrong?


Another way to look at this:

• What if they did this in PvE?
• What if you dinged 100 and went straight to Mythic raiding and the gear didnt matter at all?
• What if they removed gear in general?

I will hate it if this change goes live, but that is just my 2 cents

[Lulbalance]

"In Legion, as soon as you zone into a PvP instance, the stats on your gear will be nullified, and you'll be given a pre-determined set of stats that's uniquely configured for your specialization. Furthermore, any set bonuses, enchants, Legendary bonuses, or trinket effects will be deactivated"

The only contribution your gear will make to your overall power is through a small modifier based on your average item level. For every point that your average item level increases, your pre-determined PvP stats will increase by 0.1%. That means a 25 item level difference between two players only results in a 2.5% difference in stats, compared to the 25% difference it makes today. There’s still a little incentive to improve your gear – a concept we think is important for World of Warcraft – but the benefits are much less pronounced.


I know there are people that love for PvP to be completely about skill and not gear. But on the other side of the fence ,I know there are people that like to get in there and grind out the best gear to be able to have an upper hand in PvP content.

So with this being said, is there anything to be gain by grinding BGs to get gear since there wont be a "need" for high end PvP gear because 2.5% isnt much... When I read this it sounds like they have taken another carrot out of the game for people to chase.

Anyone else feel this way or am I reading this wrong?

it is a big drop.. i like it but i see why people would think it takes away form rewards. Thing is, if you play the game mainly to exploit gear disparity then maybe you should consider raiding instead..?

It's hard to say 'i like [challenging] pvp' and 'i like one shotting people with less gear' in the same breath without sounding like a contradiction, imo. Maybe that's because it is a contradiction..

[Orangetai420]

I don't want an upper hand, I want a level playing field.

The carrot for me has always been improving my rating.

Welcome change in my opinion.

[Yamuri]

It's just a raw stats. I agree that when working towards gear 2.5% isn't enough for 25 ilvl higher. Though I do like that They will have a chance to make every class a little more balanced with the idea that stats are streamlined according to spec. If one class, say, paladin has a little too much damage, they can see it and fix it in a patch rather than having to wait it out for a season and making seasonal gear different or nerfing a skill all together (which isn't in the game anymore sadly). This created a conflict in PvE.

I am a strong believer in that if you accomplish something well, you should be rewarded, but there's no rewards to improve it. That being said, the new way is a great way to have new people join PvE and not be discouraged by dying a lot by already geared players, making PvP attractive to fresh meat (I mean new PvP players). This may not all be correct but it's how I interpret it.

[Phookah]

You only got a relatively small advantage by grinding out gear right away anyway, as soon as a few months go by everyone is geared and the advantage is gone.
This seems like it will finally make pvp skill based.
Awesome change blizzard.

[Orangetai420]

It's just a raw stats. I agree that when working towards gear 2.5% isn't enough for 25 ilvl higher. Though I do like that They will have a chance to make every class a little more balanced with the idea that stats are streamlined according to spec. If one class, say, paladin has a little too much damage, they can see it and fix it in a patch rather than having to wait it out for a season and making seasonal gear different or nerfing a skill all together (which isn't in the game anymore sadly). This created a conflict in PvE.

I am a strong believer in that if you accomplish something well, you should be rewarded, but there's no rewards to improve it. That being said, the new way is a great way to have new people join PvE and not be discouraged by dying a lot by already geared players, making PvP attractive to fresh meat (I mean new PvP players). This may not all be correct but it's how I interpret it.

Are the titles and mounts not enough?

[Vellus]

PVP Gear could easily be a transmog-set or PVE-oriented with unique models. The gear's contribution to PVP has always made an enormous gap between skill and gear, and I think this resolves it. The carrot hasn't been removed, it can be argued that it's being molded into a different applicability of vanity reward (Similar to titles/mount rewards for PVP). I think PVP-specific gear is going in the right direction, as PVP should be about skill and not out-gearing someone else

[Deleted]

PvP is about besting your opponent on the basis of your personal competency, skill and ability. The satisfaction comes from achieving this, whether in a duel, arena or a battleground. The hardest battles are always the most satisfying to win.

THAT is the carrot in PvP. Not getting gear to crush freshly dinged people.

If this is upsetting people then they are clearly playing the wrong game mode, unfortunately.

[Deleted]

No real PvPer want's there to be a difference in terms of gear. That's why they (for example) hated the shit out of random Boxes from Ashran when they were the BiS Items for certain Specs.

I do think, that we should be able to spec into a certain Stat (like "I want more Mastery than Crit") but this system will at least make the whole balancing a lot easier.

However! I dislike the way they are doing Gear from PvP tbh. I really don't want RNG to dictate if I ever get a certain Piece/Style but that's just me.

[Yamuri]

Are the titles and mounts not enough?

I meant no rewards to improve the actions taken to get your rewards, via PvP gear. That's why we have the new PvP talent system. Keeping it on even grounds is definitely a greater way to go though since it is skill against skill rather than gear against gear.

[Kithelle]

There are some things I don't agree with...sure can equalize gear stats but why nullify certain things like trinkets and enchants? Just seems a little overboard...what the average player can't obtain any good trinkets outside of elite raiding...or isn't capable of making the gold for a decent enchant?

Well I'm glad I wont be playing Frost in pvp...losing Razorice will definitely affect its damage a bit...

[Dug]

A great change imo. It's annoying trying to do BGs with people fully decked out in Conq gear absolutely annihilating you and it's not fun being one of those people trashing "noobs" that pose no threat to you. I'm sure for some people that's fun but really PvP should be about skill not gear. Pretty much the same old thing with twinks back in the day.

[Cien]

is there anything to be gain by grinding BGs to get gear

Statements like this are just sad, BGs are huge amounts of fun. And no, if anything, they are adding 'a carrot'. The prestige system offers new opportunities to chase rewards and it should hopefully make other players think 'Oh cool, he actually has that', like back in vanilla with the old marshal gear. New artifact skin, mount and embellished portraits are a few off the top of my head. Stop reading into the negatives, they are just making transitioning between Pvp/Pve more easier and lets be really honest here, clearing the clusterfuck of the mess having both PvP and PvE gear creates.

[Santti]

Interesting. I kinda like it.

I wonder though, could you go in with outdated legendaries? For example, farm Twin Blades of Azzinoth from Illidan for your Demon Hunter and use those, since you have pre-determined stats anyway? So in a way, Legendary items just became transmoggable, but only for PvP?

Also, would going naked be a viable option? :P

[TrumpIsPresident]

I don't want an upper hand, I want a level playing field.

Yup.

Without normalized conditions victory means nothing and skill is incalculable.

Its like a team of NFL players facing off with some peewee league game and then flexing their epeens when they win an unloseable matchup.

Its why WoW PVP cant compete on the professional gaming stage.

Professional gamers just don't/can't respect it.

[High-Chief Greathoof]

Play PvP because you like to PvP. Play PvE because you like to PvE.

[Zergin8r]

There are some things I don't agree with...sure can equalize gear stats but why nullify certain things like trinkets and enchants? Just seems a little overboard...what the average player can't obtain any good trinkets outside of elite raiding...or isn't capable of making the gold for a decent enchant?

Well I'm glad I wont be playing Frost in pvp...losing Razorice will definitely affect its damage a bit...

DK enchants are still allowed since they are part of the class. Also, from my experience next to no one outside of
raiding guilds seem to be able to afford enchants and or gems. Most people I know that pvp are completely broke since they never quest, farm or do anything other than pvp so often the don't even have enough gold for repairs.

[Jibjub]

Fantastic change. PvP is and always should be about even matches and the thrill of competition. Anyone who loves just being better than everyone because of gear doesn't belong in competitive play. They should play Madden and trade all the best players to one team and then trounce the computer 98 to 3.

[Suggs]

I know there are people that love for PvP to be completely about skill and not gear. But on the other side of the fence ,I know there are people that like to get in there and grind out the best gear to be able to have an upper hand in PvP content.

This should never be the case...ever!!!
But in this game with all balancing issues Blizzard struggle with who knows.
I dont pvp anymore and havnt for quite a while now but reading the changes in legion raised an eyebrow.

[Kithelle]

DK enchants are still allowed since they are part of the class. Also, from my experience next to no one outside of
raiding guilds seem to be able to afford enchants and or gems. Most people I know that pvp are completely broke since they never quest, farm or do anything other than pvp so often the don't even have enough gold for repairs.

So in other words DK will be one of the stronger classes...or if we're balanced around our runes we will be one of the weaker classes in everything else...

Seems like a slippery slope to me...unless we get runes and enchants now.