~Monk Tank - Mythic Velhari problems - HELP!~

[Kazezoku]

Hey guys, leme start off by saying that we are on Mythic Velhari, we have a decent comp, and everything seems to be going well except one vital thing...

I am an officer in the guild and I myself play a hunter, and is especially important to me to get this worked out. However the problem we are having is our bewmaster tank.

We have literally no Idea what is going on and why he gets one-two shot almost every other pull, but we really would appreciate it if someone could look over the logs and his armory to see if you can pinpoint any problem(s).

Any how here are his logs and armory link, please check them out, I would especially be grateful to hear feedback from experienced monk tanks that have killed this fight on mythic before as well:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...odope/advanced

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/46174

The day we did velhari on that calendar is: THURSDAY DEC 17


Thank you for the overwhelming support and analyzations, this definitely helps a ton~

[Deja Thoris]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pes=1&cutoff=2

This tells a different story tbh. In 8 pulls he died once (I stop counting after the first 2 deaths).

Your culprits for the deaths that mattered were
Edict of Condemnation 4
Aura of Oppression 4
Annihilating Strike 3
Searing Blaze 3
Corrupted Blast 2

I'm not saying the monk can't improve but of your 8 wipes the only one he had a part of was when he got hit by 2 fire circles.

[Khorm]

Velhari is my most hated fight in the game as a BrM. You need a CD up whenever you're tanking in 3rd and 4th phase. Then just spam EH to get guard back up.

[Koor]

Tanks are getting hit pretty hard on Velhari. During progress our disc priest speced into clarity of will and focused mainly on the tanks, while the other healers focused on the raid.

[Kazezoku]

Okay So I get that velhari isnt a nice fight for tanks... none the less... many tanks have done and continue to do that fight, what im asking here is for help on little tips/tricks for our BM or if there is anything he's doing wrong that needs to be fixxed. Right now we are to the point where we lose him to something like a 600k hit almost every pull. I'm not tank, I have no idea whats going on, which is why i'm here.

Biggest thing is when he goes down, our other tank can only tank the boss for so long before going down himself, then the one shot every other raider part comes into play.

[AgilityTank]

is he calling externals? during p2 i use up externals bc we are moving more in p3 and i can use my own stuff and then a few @ the end. I call externals before taunting the boss.

I also bank elusive brew when im on the p1 and p2 ad so that i can have a full duration when i taunt the boss

he should be abusing his 4p by casting expel harm continuously when below the threshold

[enak101]

Elusive brew uptime seems solid in the phases where it matters.
Can anyone tell me why the average for guard on that fight is so low? I'm guessing to do with p2 and less hp or something but averaging 50k healing from a guard just seems wrong and weird. But other logs show similar amounts.
Tough on monks since they can sometimes be hit really hard and don't have a big health pool or anything, he'll need to roll externals when tanking boss as much as possible.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...urce=5&death=1

1:26.486- ~540k down to 270k from a melee swing.
1:28.085 ~250k down to dead from next melee swing, no direct heals in 1.5 seconds. He last used guard 28 seconds ago, with 4p bonus he should have had it back off cd. He has 4 piece tier right?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...urce=5&death=2

400k melee hit means dead in p2. He hadn't used elusive brew here for 22 seconds. Meaning theres no way it was up, possible he had no stacks yet but from the bit i've played my monk he would have a few stacks by then at least.

He needs to utilize vigilance from warrior, ironbark from rdruid, sacrifice from hpal, pain supp from disc. thats the only external cd's I see in the comp though which is unfortunate.

Here's a pretty big problem, he only used fortifying brew once over 14 wipes, im guessing he might be saving it for p3 and you didn't get there that often but deal with p2 first it can be extremely deadly for a monk. He didn't ironbarked once, sacced 9 times which is okayish, pain supp 3 times which is bad, and no vigilance, get the warrior to spec into that (if the dk is using those i suppose its a bit rough but the monk is the one dying more often)


He didn't use dampen harm over the whole night of 14 attempts? That's really bad, if he's specced healing elixirs im pretty sure that isn't ideal for tyrant. If he's specced into it, its just poor play never using it.

[kjazetti]

13/13M brew here. I analysed Parses 5-8 for you and compared it to mine: warcraftlogs.com/reports/jbaw73nHtr41VZWf#fight=28&type=damage-taken&source=190

Here are some things that need to change now:
Your tank is using Soul Capicator (look at Spirit Eruption damage done). I have no idea why he thinks this is okay.
He is using Serenity, but should be using Chi X.
In the 4 logs I looked at, he didn't use Purifying Brew ONCE. Even with Chi Explosion, I purified 13 times. With Serenity you NEED to use Purifying Brew or there's no other way to have stagger drop. Because of this, I have a feeling he doesn't track stagger at all.
His Expel Harm use is horrible. The best fight for Expel Harm usage (Pull 5) was 13 Expel Harms. In 6 and 8 he did it 3 times, and on Pull 7 he didn't use it once.
His Shuffle uptime is pretty poor. My uptime was 98.09% over the course of the 5 minute fight. His is ranging 70-80% in 1 or 2 minute fights.
He rarely guards.
He casts Breath of Fire.
He should be using Dampen Harm instead of Diffuse Magic.

Okay, so now additional fun things:
Pull 5: He died 2:24 to a melee hit + stagger. Before that he took roughly 1.4 million damage from Searing Blaze, Roaring Flames, and Internal Tempest. For comparison, I took 836k from those abilities over my 5 minute fight (and I will say that I think this is still sloppy and should be lower).
Pull 6: Died at 1:18 to melee, and took 428.9k of avoidable damage beforehand.
Pull 7: Took 410.3k of avoidable damage and then died to Melee. 78.8% shuffle uptime, 0 purifies, 0 Expel Harms.
Pull 8: Took 1m of avoidable damage in 1:22 seconds and then died to Tempest.

To be completely honest, I don't think he knows how to play a brewmaster. There's just so many things going wrong at once I don't quite know where to start. Pick something I mentioned above and try to explain it to him. He should read a guide, watch a youtube video, get weak auras... I don't know. There's so much that needs to be fixed that I would recommend another tank while he figures it out. This is a fight where you need your tanks to be paying attention and know what they're doing.

[Marhault]

http://www.brewmasterlogs.com/reports/tNykjd2mvQ4MDwGX

It breaks down some basics. Best things to take from it, he can Keg Smash more. Also shows a lack of removing Stagger so he's taking a considerable amount of extra damage which is basically going into his guards making them less useful.

Some big changes he can do:
He used Dampen Harm twice in total from the 21 wipes, and at one point used Diffuse Magic (Which is terrible for this fight).
He used Fortify Brew twice in total.
Both of those should be used whenever he is tanking Tyrant during Phase 3.

During phase 2, once his health hits below 50% max he should have a permanent guard available.

He's using Serenity, which I wouldn't recommend, however if he wants to keep using it, he needs to use Purifying Brew. He used it once on wipe 15, over 4:37. Even if he doesn't use it outside of Serenity (Which is bad by itself), it can be used roughly 3-4 times during the Serenity duration as it's off the GCD.

If he has Kilrogg's trinket, I would recommend it. I'm guessing not though since he has Turnbuckle equipped. He is using that one well enough.


Best changes to recommend are that he uses his defensives during Phase 3 and that externals are used during Phase 3. On your 22% wipe, your DK had Vigilance, Hand of Sac, and Iron Bark used on him while the monk had nothing used on him. Also tank ring was used after the monk died.

I'll agree with Kjazetti, there's so much wrong in basic play that trying to pick a specific issue is pretty hard.

[enak101]

Yeah looking at it more closely that stagger and purifying is disgustingly bad, shows a clear lack of understanding on the basics of his class. He needs to grab some weakauras for brewmaster and go over his core class mechanics again.

[AgilityTank]

I think they need a brewmaster but that's just me. His healers HAVE to be purely carrying him up to tyrant anyways

[Tech614]

He should at least be using the heirloom trinket over soul capacitor or turnbuckle(which he has on in the armory).

Between guard and heirloom trinket he should have a near permanent absorb up in phase 2. In phase 3 he should have a cd available every time he taunts the boss between FB, Dampen Harm, Ring, Externals on top of this he should have a hefty amount of absorbs ready every time he taunts between guard and heirloom trinket.

He should also be killing kilrogg 2 times a week(on top of the mythic kill) if he needs to on heroic to get WUE with bonus rolls, no excuse really for not at least having the H version. It's more important for his progression, especially as an under performing tank then any mythic drop will be. He should be able to find pugs on the group finder at him at all hours of the day.

Then you factor in his shit play, and it's no wonder he gives no shit and doesn't have WUE yet.

I mean if you look at his kill counts for heroic compared to Mythic it really looks like you guys just brought him in and started carrying him. That's what happens.

[Deleted]

This thread makes me scared we decided to go to tyrant first. The reasoning was the zakuun might be harder to learn as a whole raid but tyrant mainly harder on execution. I guess though it doesn't matter much in the mid term.

[TwentyTwelve]

Tyrants easy if your tanks play it safe i.m.o

Just a quick look at wipe 7 - so many deaths before the tank actually died... Might want to fix that, but in regards to the tank

As others have said; (bare in mind i haven't played monk since changes to shuffle but i'm pretty sure Serenity is just a crap talent now, i mean if u do actually take it for whatever reason, it's nothing more but to purify like mad).

Monk is using soul cap trinket (it's great for damage and farm, but on progress, especially tyrant, it's very stupid)
I see no Killrogs unseeing eye being used - i assume he has it, if so use it.
Like others have said, no purifying brew - pretty much wanna purify after each hit in p2 especially if hes running serenity lol.

Guard usage seems low...

And by the looks of his death log, positioning is wrong;

Aeix Corrupted Blast Swagsodope 72607
-1.70s Theharbìnger Corrupted Blast Swagsodope 63854 (A: 12323)

This was taken shortly before the finishing hit.

There doesn't seem to be many externals being used and Fort brew used 0 times, he should possibly just fort brew the sketchy area - i find the 45% mark to be the worst of the whole fight - for us anyway it seemed to time with an edict.

TL;DR
Replace soul cap with defensive trinket - pref WUE
Purify damage more (a lot more, he does the same of a new player to the monk class).
don't take stupid cleave from raid
have a CD every time u tank boss in p2 - guard/fort brew/external. (elusive brew is too RNG to rely on alone).

[Teomas]

This thread makes me scared we decided to go to tyrant first. The reasoning was the zakuun might be harder to learn as a whole raid but tyrant mainly harder on execution. I guess though it doesn't matter much in the mid term.

Tyrant is way harder than Zakuun.
With itemlevel push and some good DPS you can even skip the second Phase on the Zakuun fight. Tyrant on the other is horrible if you need to use a CR before you reach phase 3. Your tanks are gonna get rekt in the last phase.

[Zelendria]

This thread makes me scared we decided to go to tyrant first. The reasoning was the zakuun might be harder to learn as a whole raid but tyrant mainly harder on execution. I guess though it doesn't matter much in the mid term.

Zakuun is easier for every role, and the mechanics are easier to deal with. Plus the fight is much shorter, and much quicker to run back to from a wipe.
The walk back to Velhari sucks arse

[Kazezoku]

I just want to thank everyone who left some in depth feedback, this is exactly what we needed, and we can now begin to work on getting better. Again, really appreciate it!

[shi]

He should at least be using the heirloom trinket over soul capacitor or turnbuckle(which he has on in the armory).

Between guard and heirloom trinket he should have a near permanent absorb up in phase 2. In phase 3 he should have a cd available every time he taunts the boss between FB, Dampen Harm, Ring, Externals on top of this he should have a hefty amount of absorbs ready every time he taunts between guard and heirloom trinket.

He should also be killing kilrogg 2 times a week(on top of the mythic kill) if he needs to on heroic to get WUE with bonus rolls, no excuse really for not at least having the H version. It's more important for his progression, especially as an under performing tank then any mythic drop will be. He should be able to find pugs on the group finder at him at all hours of the day.

Then you factor in his shit play, and it's no wonder he gives no shit and doesn't have WUE yet.

I mean if you look at his kill counts for heroic compared to Mythic it really looks like you guys just brought him in and started carrying him. That's what happens.

Tbf it's really easy to carry a shit tank and not even notice up until tyrant since blizzard tuned boss damage to be so negligible relative to holy paladin beacon hps.

[Tech614]

Tbf it's really easy to carry a shit tank and not even notice up until tyrant since blizzard tuned boss damage to be so negligible relative to holy paladin beacon hps.

It's a problem with guilds who don't analyze their tanks except for when they get to a point they are causing wipes. Meanwhile if you where still progressing through mythics but had DPS still doing 45k they would get their ass chewed out. This tank's performance might even be worse then mythic geared 45k dps though as sad as that is.

Short story: Analyze your tanks and question them raid leaders, even if you're progressing just fine. A tank's job is not just to stay alive, especially on bosses where beacons and rejuvs could keep you alive while you're afk.

[Piwielle]

Why is everyone telling him to go chi ex when he's having trouble with survivability ? Serenity is easier to play and leads to higher survivability than chi ex.
Rest of advices are mostly fine, but don't use chi ex if you're dying.

Oh, also, boss damage was tuned for progression in like 715 ilvl, ofc at 735 with 735 healers it's not threatening for decent players. Tank damage was fine and pretty interesting during progression for the last bosses.