Just started playing MW again

[anon5123]

Finally summed up enough attention span to level a 2nd character to 100.

Healing dungeons as Mistweaver...is it supposed to be this challenging? I feel like I can't (effectively) heal more than one target at a time. REM doesn't heal for shit, Uplift doesn't heal for shit; it seems like the only thing that heals any decent amount is SS + EM. Or is it just because I'm healing 94-96 dungeons in level 90 gear? While also being so used to playing an ilvl 700 Disc priest?

I read the guide; I've got the right spec, doing...most of the right stuff, I think (Expel Harm on CD, REM on CD, and then just SS + SM + EM on whoever needs it) but it still seems really hard. If more than 1 person is taking lots of damage, it's really tough to keep up with healing.

Certainly not new to Monks, played this one extensively in 5.4 (I honestly liked that playstyle a lot more), so...I'm assuming it's just because I'm undergeared for the content, that it feels so damn hard?

[Deleted]

Finally summed up enough attention span to level a 2nd character to 100.

Healing dungeons as Mistweaver...is it supposed to be this challenging? I feel like I can't (effectively) heal more than one target at a time. REM doesn't heal for shit, Uplift doesn't heal for shit; it seems like the only thing that heals any decent amount is SS + EM. Or is it just because I'm healing 94-96 dungeons in level 90 gear? While also being so used to playing an ilvl 700 Disc priest?

I read the guide; I've got the right spec, doing...most of the right stuff, I think (Expel Harm on CD, REM on CD, and then just SS + SM + EM on whoever needs it) but it still seems really hard. If more than 1 person is taking lots of damage, it's really tough to keep up with healing.

Certainly not new to Monks, played this one extensively in 5.4 (I honestly liked that playstyle a lot more), so...I'm assuming it's just because I'm undergeared for the content, that it feels so damn hard?

I don't think you'll find a mistweaver who doesn't prefer MoP, regardless dungeon healing you really just need to focus on getting enough chi to cast env. Zen Sphere is shit, Chi Wave is shit, undergeared the only thing that will keep players reasonably topped is EnvM.

[vulena]

Healing dungeons as Mistweaver...is it supposed to be this challenging?

We're, by far, the worst healer for 5-mans.

The changes for Legion make it look like we might be the best, on the plus side!

My MW is my raid healer, but I do not run Mythic Dungeons with it for this very reason.

[anon5123]

Mm. I've run around Tanaan a bit and gotten myself up to 645 ilvl, and healing dungeons does seem pretty easy now, though....yeah, when the rest of the group is ilvl 670+, running base heroics is going to be fucking easy. Bosses go down in like 30-40 seconds. :P

Only question I have now, is do I use Chi Explosion or Pool of Mists for dungeons? I really can't figure out the proper way to use Chi Explosion, and EM seems like a much easier way to spend Chi. Plus with PoM, I get tons of extra chi from REM casts, and I can easily keep REM on the whole group.

The guide says to only use Chi Explosion with 4 Chi, which does seem to heal for a decent amount, as well as spawn the 8 healing orbs. I'm assuming you then use Detonate Chi afterwards?

...Oh, I did have another question: how does REM bouncing work? I've noticed that sometimes, if everyone in range has an REM already, it will bounce to someone and overwrite theirs with a new one, but sometimes it doesn't. Is there some rhyme and reason behind this?

[Saverem]

We're, by far, the worst healer for 5-mans.

The changes for Legion make it look like we might be the best, on the plus side!

My MW is my raid healer, but I do not run Mythic Dungeons with it for this very reason.

It looks like in Legion we're going to get a role reversal. We're going from one of the best raid healers to one of the worst and one of the worst group healers to one of the best.

[vulena]

Only question I have now, is do I use Chi Explosion or Pool of Mists for dungeons? I really can't figure out the proper way to use Chi Explosion, and EM seems like a much easier way to spend Chi. Plus with PoM, I get tons of extra chi from REM casts, and I can easily keep REM on the whole group.

PoM is pretty much the go-to talent for all situations right now.

ReM's HoT ticks won't save your party, but you're right about the Chi generation, which leads directly to more Enveloping Mist uptime (that said, Surging Mist is only marginally more expensive, mana-wise, so ReM in 5-mans is a low-healing situation way to build Chi).

Because tier bonuses of HFC make PoM mandatory, you also may as well get used to using it instead of ChiEx anyway.

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It looks like in Legion we're going to get a role reversal. We're going from one of the best raid healers to one of the worst and one of the worst group healers to one of the best.

Somewhat; a lot of healers got AoE tools taken away from them so that there's more targeting healing (Chain heal nerfs, Circle of Healing is a talent and not baseline, less frequenty PW:S blanketing).

Plus, we'll have Revival AND that Crane cooldown. Mostly depends on how Font is tuned, and whether or not the fight is stacked (Refreshing Jade Wind is still around).

Keep in mind that Font also starts working immediately, rather than requiring ReM to already be out, and that it's spammable beyond two uses in a row (can't spam Uplift more than twice without hitting something in-between), and that we essentially get a Prayer of Mending that doesn't require damage to activate.

Our raid healing tools are DIFFERENT, for sure, and less complex. They will definitely be at least slightly less powerful, but I don't find ReM+Uplift super interesting.

[Saverem]

Somewhat; a lot of healers got AoE tools taken away from them so that there's more targeting healing (Chain heal nerfs, Circle of Healing is a talent and not baseline, less frequenty PW:S blanketing).

Plus, we'll have Revival AND that Crane cooldown. Mostly depends on how Font is tuned, and whether or not the fight is stacked (Refreshing Jade Wind is still around).

Keep in mind that Font also starts working immediately, rather than requiring ReM to already be out, and that it's spammable beyond two uses in a row (can't spam Uplift more than twice without hitting something in-between), and that we essentially get a Prayer of Mending that doesn't require damage to activate.

Our raid healing tools are DIFFERENT, for sure, and less complex. They will definitely be at least slightly less powerful, but I don't find ReM+Uplift super interesting.

What nerf did CH get?

As for EF, it's going to be our most mana intensive spell and will probably have to be used sparingly.

[anon5123]

Hmm, hmm...

Another question, is Fistweaving supposed to be...viable? I find that its healing output is just far too low, even in dungeons that I outgear. I know from experience that Disc priest's atonement doesn't heal for shit and as such is fucking useless; are Fistweaving heals the same way?

Strangely enough I seem to do more DPS in crane stance than with a Windwalker spec, even though the ilvl difference between the sets is small.

[kabshiel]

Hmm, hmm...

Another question, is Fistweaving supposed to be...viable? I find that its healing output is just far too low, even in dungeons that I outgear. I know from experience that Disc priest's atonement doesn't heal for shit and as such is fucking useless; are Fistweaving heals the same way?

Strangely enough I seem to do more DPS in crane stance than with a Windwalker spec, even though the ilvl difference between the sets is small.

I probably wouldn't fistweave in a 5-man unless the tank was very competent or very over geared. It's best used in raids during periods of low damage.

[Adaren]

And you're supposed to have crazy mana problems at low ilvl as a Mistweaver. Well you aren't supposed to, but Blizzard knew Mana Tea was imbalanced so in some extremely short-sighted attempt to fix it they made it exceedingly powerful at high ilvl and crappy at low ilvl. Instead of just, you know, tuning it.

[anon5123]

And you're supposed to have crazy mana problems at low ilvl as a Mistweaver. Well you aren't supposed to, but Blizzard knew Mana Tea was imbalanced so in some extremely short-sighted attempt to fix it they made it exceedingly powerful at high ilvl and crappy at low ilvl. Instead of just, you know, tuning it.

I don't seem to have any issues with mana....but then again I'm healing 6.0 heroics at ~650 ilvl with 670+ tanks, so yeah

The same thing happened with disc priest Rapture in cataclysm. It was so goddamn much mana regen that by the last raid tier, Disc priests were reforging out of all spirit and using non-spirit gear and such, because they just didn't need it due to Rapture returning so much mana.....while at the same time, Holy's regen was absolute shit to the point where you couldn't use it on most heroic fights because you'd OOM halfway through. Nice balancing, blizz.

[Saverem]

Hmm, hmm...

Another question, is Fistweaving supposed to be...viable? I find that its healing output is just far too low, even in dungeons that I outgear. I know from experience that Disc priest's atonement doesn't heal for shit and as such is fucking useless; are Fistweaving heals the same way?

Strangely enough I seem to do more DPS in crane stance than with a Windwalker spec, even though the ilvl difference between the sets is small.

Devs specifically said no. No more fistweaving, however, you could still do damage (for grinding as a MW if you so desire). You'll no longer heal from DPSing, that is completely gone, but I'm sure you could still do some damage on dungeons that you out gear and don't need to be constantly healing.

[vulena]

What nerf did CH get?

As for EF, it's going to be our most mana intensive spell and will probably have to be used sparingly.

CH goes down considerably more per jump, and High Tide doesn't boost it as much as it does now.

RJW is currently our most mana-intensive spell and it sees a lot of play, so I'm still not convinced our raid healing will be dismal. (edit: I know that's supported heavily by Mana Tea, but EF+Talent Mana Tea will definitely happen often). EF can also be channeled while moving if you use TFT, which is nothing to sneeze at.

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Another question, is Fistweaving supposed to be...viable?

It was never meant as a full-time healing replacement, but for periods of low incoming damage. It's viable for its intended purpose (and for building up Mana Tea, its unintended but most common purpose), but not for 100% usage.

However, with ChiEx, a decent tank, a group with at least some melee and severely outgearing content, I can usually fistweave for about 95% of a Heroic pug these days.

[anon5123]

It was never meant as a full-time healing replacement, but for periods of low incoming damage. It's viable for its intended purpose (and for building up Mana Tea, its unintended but most common purpose), but not for 100% usage.

So yeah, same as Atonement.

When exactly is crane stance used in raids, then? In the few LFRs I did, I just stayed in serpent the whole time. Seemed to do just fine.

Devs specifically said no. No more fistweaving, however, you could still do damage (for grinding as a MW if you so desire).

Strangely enough I'm finding that I do more DPS in crane stance than with my Windwalker spec. Much better in tanaan at lower gear levels, due to the added survivability from heals.

[Saverem]

Strangely enough I'm finding that I do more DPS in crane stance than with my Windwalker spec. Much better in tanaan at lower gear levels, due to the added survivability from heals.

You're doing something wrong as a WW if your Crane Stance is out damaging it. Crane Stance may seem to do more damage because RSK is buffed and can crit for over 100k easy, but WW has more offensive abilities and their GCD is reduced by haste unlike Crane Stance which is forever stuck in a slow 1.5s GCD.

[anon5123]

You're doing something wrong as a WW if your Crane Stance is out damaging it. Crane Stance may seem to do more damage because RSK is buffed and can crit for over 100k easy, but WW has more offensive abilities and their GCD is reduced by haste unlike Crane Stance which is forever stuck in a slow 1.5s GCD.

Might just be my weapons; 685 spellpower 1h VS 655 agi staff. But as WW I was finding that I'd just get energy starved really quickly and be Jab->RSK/BK'ing over and over again. Even with the +15% energy regen talent, it feels like I just don't regen enough energy to keep a steady rotation going for more than 15 seconds, without using CDs (Energizing Brew, Serenity)

On the dummy with just self-buffs (no consumables) I barely break 15k with Windwalker with 3-4 minutes of combat, using everything except Xuen. With crane stance I'm around 13-14k.

I suppose I still like crane stance better for soloing, due to all the free healing; shit in tanaan hits hard.

[Saverem]

Might just be my weapons; 685 spellpower 1h VS 655 agi staff. But as WW I was finding that I'd just get energy starved really quickly and be Jab->RSK/BK'ing over and over again. Even with the +15% energy regen talent, it feels like I just don't regen enough energy to keep a steady rotation going for more than 15 seconds, without using CDs (Energizing Brew, Serenity)

On the dummy with just self-buffs (no consumables) I barely break 15k with Windwalker with 3-4 minutes of combat, using everything except Xuen. With crane stance I'm around 13-14k.

I suppose I still like crane stance better for soloing, due to all the free healing; shit in tanaan hits hard.

Are you using the CDs? Tigereye and Energizing Brew are on VERY low CD and meant to be used a lot. Ascension talent isn't that great, go with the other 2. Also don't forget to FoF, that is your best damage ability.

WW is more efficient at soloing, it has chi orb drops for healing and BoK also heals you. FoF stuns targets and pretty much kills them.

[vulena]

When exactly is crane stance used in raids, then? In the few LFRs I did, I just stayed in serpent the whole time. Seemed to do just fine

Like I said, low-damage periods to build up stacks of Mana Tea. Most often, the very beginning of the fight, and some other stretches along the way.

Or when your raid team is farming the raid instead of progressing, but they also like you and don't want to replace you with a DPS.

LFR's a pretty solid place to fistweave if the other healers are decent enough, since there's so little damage going out. You might be low on the meters, though, which could be trouble if they need someone to blame after a wipe.

Basically, you never HAVE to fistweave. Ever. It's only if you want to DPS, build stacks of Mana Tea, or both.

[anon5123]

Yeah, I was using Tigereye and Energizing Brew.

For soloing, I am noticing that stuff dies faster, but I'm also noticing that I'm often having to stop and heal myself if I fight a tough mob in Tanaan. The healing from the auto-dropped orbs is pathetically small, like 4k. Barely even noticeable.

[Spotnick]

I don't think you'll find a mistweaver who doesn't prefer MoP, regardless dungeon healing you really just need to focus on getting enough chi to cast env. Zen Sphere is shit, Chi Wave is shit, undergeared the only thing that will keep players reasonably topped is EnvM.

Well, once again, 5 man healing is fun, only with our 4 piece tier set bonus.

Sadly the band-aid fix is not available to a large scale of the population.