TBC vs MoP on theme and races.

[Breaque]

I found most people that hate on it were just the retarded "HURR KUNGFU PANDA" fuckwits of these Forums.

Anyone that couldn't see the actual great lore and themes of MoP are either dumb as shit or 12.

wow, slow down your nerdraging and take a chill pill, your dispute is childish.and each one has his own opinion and a pov.

[Sentynel]

Aside from the Stormstout questline in valley, what was so silly about Pandaren? There were serious quest lines all over MoP, with a smattering of funny here and there. Which TBC also had (picking up poo...)

And are you forgetting the goblin city and gnome city of TBC which was almost nothing but silly?

You remember that quest from Krasarang Wilds when you literally had to kick a depressed Panda every 3 meters or so until he rolled back his fat ass to town? Yeah, that was silly as fuck.

And many others...

[Breaque]

People are always the same. When TBC came out, there was a crazy amount of bitching and whine. Doesn't feel like Warcraft at all any more, Blizzard is raping and destroying the franchise, what's with this outer space bullshit, omg Draenei retcon, welfare epics, game is dying, blah blah. WotLK was even more hated and the whiners were even more furious.

I really didn't read anything but positive reviews on tbc and even more on wotlk. the only negativity came to light was the start of cata up to wod.

[Deleted]

You remember that quest from Krasarang Wilds when you literally had to kick a depressed Panda every 3 meters or so until he rolled back his fat ass to town? Yeah, that was silly as fuck.

And many others...

Because he was about to let himself be killed by the giant birds scouring the area. Primarily depressed because the Sha of Despair had manifested in Krasarang.

Silly as FUCK.

[Adramalech]

I really didn't read anything but positive reviews on tbc and even more on wotlk. the only negativity came to light was the start of cata up to wod.

You definitely didn't frequent these forums back then if you never saw any negativity towards Wrath when it was current. It was tiring to read, and it sounded an awful lot like much of the negativity that spawned against every expansion after it.

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Because he was about to let himself be killed by the giant birds scouring the area. Primarily depressed because the Sha of Despair had manifested in Krasarang.

Silly as FUCK.

Depression is a joke, bruh.

[Toppy]

Call me bias, but i refuse to play as a panda in a world full of orcs demons and undead. as for the dreanai, think archimonde and kiljaden can support a very strong backbone for tbc race lore.

Well they do now after TBC gave them their space alien backing.

Draenei were largely a retcon of former eredar (therefore archimonde and kiljaeden) lore.

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Correct me if i'm wrong , wasn't illeden the ruler of outland and we were the rebel ? seem's a legit motive to keep his domain.

We were a rebel because he attacked for no real reason.

That was the thing. There was no motivation behind his actions. His enemy was demons alone, yet he was attacking everything.

[Breaque]

He was as much the ruler of Outland as Magtheridon was - aka not really. Illidan made home in the Black Temple/Outland because he thought he could escape Kil'jaeden, but that didn't work out. He was 100% an antihero back in the RTS, but then comes TBC expansion and he's just sorta turned mad, so now we had to kill him. There was not much thought behind TBC lore.

We were a rebel because he attacked for no real reason.

That was the thing. There was no motivation behind his actions. His enemy was demons alone, yet he was attacking everything.

We can't be sure , since blizz tends to twist lore where they see fit for a new expansion, and the twist with tbc was that , kael[always been a puppet for the humans and now legion] is the the one who ordered to open fire so illeden would retaliate. with both having prolonged casualties, the burning legion can hold illeden as a less threat while weakening other opposing factions.

[Deleted]

We can't be sure , since blizz tends to twist lore where they see fit for a new expansion, and the twist with tbc was that , kael[always been a puppet for the humans and now legion] is the the one who ordered to open fire so illeden would retaliate. with both having prolonged casualties, the burning legion can hold illeden as a less threat while weakening other opposing factions.

But Kael'thas had not been a puppet of Humans for forever. It was Kael'thas, Vashj, Illidan and Akama who fought together in warcraft 3 and took over the Black Temple from Magtheridon. They even fought together against Arthas when they had a race between whom could get to the Frozen Throne first.

If anything this would make Kael'thas the primary villain of TBC since he started the entire conflict by siding with the Legion and attacking Illidan. Illidan was ALWAYs against the Legion. His every action has been an attempt at defeating the Legion - until TBC came out.

[Toppy]

You remember that quest from Krasarang Wilds when you literally had to kick a depressed Panda every 3 meters or so until he rolled back his fat ass to town? Yeah, that was silly as fuck.

And many others...

Remember how the Draenei crash landed a space ship into azeroth? And how they're the demon but, but they're the good demons so dont worry (and they're automatically accepted as steadfast allies). Thats very silly.

Remember how entire Pandaren villages in every single zone (except Townlong and Dreadwastes since Pandaren dont settle there) were either razed to the ground or demolished in MoP? So silly.

There's silly and serious in both. That said, there was never any real sense of hopelessness or loss in TBC, aside from the fungus people. Horde and Alliance reigned largely unopposed, and the locals were largely intact, not counting what happened in WC1-2. This is largely due to the TBC narrative being self contained zones, so a story happened and was concluded in each, though even then, there wasnt much of a story since all the villains had no real motivation or reason for doing what they were doing.


TBC and WoD kinda had the same issue of the immediate and big dangerous threat being ended at the very start. We burst in, burn an army to the ground, get a foothold, and spend the rest of our time cleaning up.

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But Kael'thas had not been a puppet of Humans for forever. It was Kael'thas, Vashj, Illidan and Akama who fought together in warcraft 3 and took over the Black Temple from Magtheridon. They even fought together against Arthas when they had a race between whom could get to the Frozen Throne first.

If anything this would make Kael'thas the primary villain of TBC since he started the entire conflict by siding with the Legion and attacking Illidan. Illidan was ALWAYs against the Legion. His every action has been an attempt at defeating the Legion - until TBC came out.

Kael was allied with Illidan.

Untill Illidan died that is.

[Boxilot]

There actually was very little, if any, japanese culture with the Pandaren.

A lot of people assume there is due to japanese and asia always going hand in hand with popular media, and then never question that there must be japanese influence there. But there's really nothing there thats uniquely japanese. Hell, the only creature in MoP to even use a katana was a Saurok.


Lets not forget that the TBC had crap story telling to. What was Illidans motivation for attacking us and Shattrath?

Exactly.

Did you even read what I wrote or are you arguing just to argue?

[Toppy]

Did you even read what I wrote or are you arguing just to argue?

Well I didnt mention the pop culture bit since just about every race has pop culture mixed in to the point its a moot point. And they aren't really a blend of chinese and japanese culture when there's no japanese in that mix.

The second part of your post was somewhat contradictory. You start by saying that powerful known characters would carry it even though the rest fell flat. Then you go on to MoP having bad story telling without really establishing that TBC had any good story telling. Which it didn't. It just tossed a few heroes at us who had no reason to want to fight.

At least the villains of MoP had motives and reason behind their actions. Mogu wanted dominance. Yaungol were fleeing the mantid. Mantid were serving their god. Garrosh was fighting back after being back stabbed so much. Simple motivations, but at least they had them.

TBC villains had no real motivation. Illidan was fighting us for no reason, and all the other villains were doing what Illidan told them. Then Kael joined a demon for the sake of gaining new power, despite the Sunwell already being re-ignited and that power once again being open to his people.

[Boxilot]

Well I didnt mention the pop culture bit since just about every race has pop culture mixed in to the point its a moot point. And they aren't really a blend of chinese and japanese culture when there's no japanese in that mix.

The second part of your post was somewhat contradictory. You start by saying that powerful known characters would carry it even though the rest fell flat. Then you go on to MoP having bad story telling without really establishing that TBC had any good story telling. Which it didn't. It just tossed a few heroes at us who had no reason to want to fight.

At least the villains of MoP had motives and reason behind their actions. Mogu wanted dominance. Yaungol were fleeing the mantid. Mantid were serving their god. Garrosh was fighting back after being back stabbed so much. Simple motivations, but at least they had them.

TBC villains had no real motivation. Illidan was fighting us for no reason, and all the other villains were doing what Illidan told them. Then Kael joined a demon for the sake of gaining new power, despite the Sunwell already being re-ignited and that power once again being open to his people.

Well the blood elves certainly had a reason to fight. They wanted new land where their people could prosper, and they were promised alternatives to mana to fix their addiction. By the time the Sunwell was fixed Kael'thas was beyond reasoning thanks to fellcorruption. I don't find that story any less interesting than anything else in MoP. What made it work was that the blood elves were already known entities from previous lore. MoP fell flat because it had little to lean on that people recognised/were interested in. It had to stand entirely on its own legs with a main antagonist that was not properly revealed until the latter half of the expansion, and then he just seemed completely at odds with the Garrosh we got to know in Cataclysm. You know the Garrosh who spoke of the honour of the horde and to never kill innocents? Then he turns around and tries to genocide entire peoples without there being any real outside influence to change him just for the sake of forcing in a horde vs alliance fight. At least Illidan was always known as a bullrusher who liked to force through his own perspective.

I liked MoP and all, found several of the questlines both moving and compelling, but overall the Outland twist was more fun and more interesting and added more that I enjoyed and found fitting than I did in MoP.

[Toppy]

Well the blood elves certainly had a reason to fight. They wanted new land where their people could prosper, and they were promised alternatives to mana to fix their addiction. By the time the Sunwell was fixed Kael'thas was beyond reasoning thanks to fellcorruption. I don't find that story any less interesting than anything else in MoP. What made it work was that the blood elves were already known entities from previous lore. MoP fell flat because it had little to lean on that people recognised/were interested in. It had to stand entirely on its own legs with a main antagonist that was not properly revealed until the latter half of the expansion, and then he just seemed completely at odds with the Garrosh we got to know in Cataclysm. You know the Garrosh who spoke of the honour of the horde and to never kill innocents? Then he turns around and tries to genocide entire peoples without there being any real outside influence to change him just for the sake of forcing in a horde vs alliance fight. At least Illidan was always known as a bullrusher who liked to force through his own perspective.

I liked MoP and all, found several of the questlines both moving and compelling, but overall the Outland twist was more fun and more interesting and added more that I enjoyed and found fitting than I did in MoP.

Some of that was actually built up. And that still doesnt explain Kael's reasoning when he had a source for his people and didnt have a reason to attack the Horde and Alliance. He had reasoning for joining Illidan, but that was the WC3 plot and it was finished. Then come TBC and he fighting for no reason. TBC didnt have a coherent story. The plot was driven by no other reason than "These guys are villains now because they need to be. Kill them."

The Garrosh thing was built up as well. Vol'Jin and Cairne had both back stabbed him. Lor'Themar was planning treason and was shouting at Garrosh for poor reasoning. Sylv was a backstabbing git from the get go. Everything not an Orc or Goblin was openly and constantly questioning him and conspiring against him.

Likewise it was explained in his hero story (on the wow site) that the alliance had been antagonizing against the Horde since vanilla. Theramore was also a "neutral" port providing for a hostile enemy and Garrosh was entirely in the right to attack it. Hell, he had given the people in Theramore time to evacuate (untill Golden made that god awful warcrimes books which shat on every race, and it only noted for pointing out that Vol'Jin is an untrustworthy traitor).

[Super Kami Dende]

wow, slow down your nerdraging and take a chill pill, your dispute is childish.and each one has his own opinion and a pov.

lolwut? No one was raging. Was simply pointing out a fact. (I know people will cry DATS NOT FACT ITS OPINION, but in this case, it is a fact )

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

I disliked how much pink and purple shit was in BC. Steampunk was okay but the Magitech stuff was a little too far for me. Races were alright, yes the Lore took a hit but at that age, if it didn't involve The Lich King I didn't give a shit.

MoP had beautiful art. I loved the scenery, the colors, the theme. The only thing I hate about MoP was the pandaren and how they became playable. I just don't like to see those bouncy fat fucks waddle around.

[Nihilist74]

In my opinion MOP had better class abilities and the addition of the monk class was great. The questing zones in MOP were a lot of fun. I didn't like the Asian theme much. MOP had raid finder and dungeon finder. I loved doing Throne of thunder even in LFR. Flex raiding in SOO was a lot of fun for me.

I feel that BC had the best dungeons in the game out of all the expansions and it had a lot of them. MOP dungeons were not that fun. Dungeons are my favorite part of the game. To this day I still feel that the BC dungeons were the most fun of all the expansions. The cataclysm dungeons were my 2nd favorite.

[Verdugo]

Because he was about to let himself be killed by the giant birds scouring the area. Primarily depressed because the Sha of Despair had manifested in Krasarang.

Silly as FUCK.

That quest was the only quest I laughed at in MoP and it was supposed to be depressing. Good job Blizzard writers!

[Shiroh]

I don't know. TBC was worse than MoP in every aspect but space goats seem to be more attractive to cool kids than pandas. Of course, the community wasn't as toxic and self-entitled back. They were fine with experimentation while nowadays people just whine if something isn't exactly as they envisioned it.

[Canderous1]

there was something awesome that first time you stepped through the dark portal and set foot on hellfire peninsula. the sound, the atmosphere, the pit lord, even the music. not once during pandaria did i have any of the feels that i got early in BC. When an expansion starts off boring, its hard to make up ground. i did really like pandaria in the long run, but it was still a step down from TBC.

[Tyrannica]

my thoughts about MoP which i do not compare with TBC(lol?)

MoP had a kinda weak marketing and overall message, because the world of warcraft is simply just about war - this might be silly, but its the way it is. there cannot be peace or harmony. The asian message here simply failed in such a world.

Asia culture however was welcomend for a change, but the art of the armor and weapons could have been done way better. More chinese ghost story like themes could have been implementend, they tried this a bit with the "Isle of Thunder".

The initial start of MoP was very weak. the leveling expierence wasn't my cup of tea and the first few raids sucked and were pretty boring, while the the expansion grew much stronger when they did solo scenarios and the "Isle of thunder" thing. Here it shows its true quality and it was good. SOO was ok, too.

Just this expansion really started weak and added pandas, pandas in wow are ok, just not as playable faction. They really do not fit and make everything more ridiculous as it is. Just because there was Chen in wc3:ft does not mean everyone must be a pandabear.

This makes less sense than adding ogres and arrakoa, those 2 at least fit into wow lore much better and overall theme.