Rogue trinket comparison incl the new heirloom trinket

[PessimiStick]

Looks like ~8% contribution from those logs. 5% from the damage itself, and ~3% from the buff. My Soul Cap on Gorefiend last night was ~8.3% of my damage, so at least napkin-wise, it seems usable.

[Paleaura]

Looks like ~8% contribution from those logs. 5% from the damage itself, and ~3% from the buff. My Soul Cap on Gorefiend last night was ~8.3% of my damage, so at least napkin-wise, it seems usable.

Ippon you trippin. Soul Cap forever

[Wries]

Also very curious where the heirloom trinket places itself. Like mentioned it does not proc for the damage it says on the tooltip. Mine averages around 70k per hit and does around 10% of my total damage. But I don't log propery and am just looking at the skada report like a scrub

[PessimiStick]

Ippon you trippin. Soul Cap forever

Soul Cap is clearly better, Heirloom just looks like it isn't complete trash against Demons. =p

[maddnesskhaz]

Soul Cap is all about the RNG game, and it's always been difficult to model the interaction between Ring + Soul Cap + Cooldowns.

On pull (as Sub) the Cool Downs + Soul Cap + Ring adds an enormous amount of burst. I'm guessing that the heirloom is a bit less rng risky and involves less concern about managing the explosion so you're always in range, but you do lose out on the potential DPS that Soul Cap can bring.

For Assn I or Combat (against Demons) I can see it being a closer discussion however.

[Snorlaxi]

According to shadowcraft the heirloom trinket only loses to mythic class trinket. And I'm not saying that just because of where it's listed as someone implied earlier in the thread, I actually selected it and compared. I have no idea if shadowcraft is just considering everything as demons, and honestly even if it was, I still think the heirloom shouldn't be ranked THAT high.

Everyone here is just saying "soul capacitor is better on single target" and I'm inclined to agree, but I really don't know what to say when more than one sim is pointing the heirloom trinket as better than normal capacitor and even heroic capacitor. Right now I'm at normal capacitor, which even upgraded is still 10 ilvl bellow the heirloom, so I think I'll stick with class trinket + heirloom for now.

When I get my heroic capacitor then things will get complicated. So far nobody seems to have a solid answer.

[Radaney]

According to shadowcraft the heirloom trinket only loses to mythic class trinket. And I'm not saying that just because of where it's listed as someone implied earlier in the thread, I actually selected it and compared. I have no idea if shadowcraft is just considering everything as demons, and honestly even if it was, I still think the heirloom shouldn't be ranked THAT high.

Everyone here is just saying "soul capacitor is better on single target" and I'm inclined to agree, but I really don't know what to say when more than one sim is pointing the heirloom trinket as better than normal capacitor and even heroic capacitor. Right now I'm at normal capacitor, which even upgraded is still 10 ilvl bellow the heirloom, so I think I'll stick with class trinket + heirloom for now.

When I get my heroic capacitor then things will get complicated. So far nobody seems to have a solid answer.

Use this setting!

When I have it as no the trinket is still rated the highest trinket. Even above all Mythic WF trinkets.

[Antermosiph]

You guys are talking about the heirloom trinket but you havent even used it have you? It doesnt just procc for 11k dmg, At 706 Ilvl its proccing for 50k dmg and yes it can crit. Sometimes i check my most dmging abilities on recount and Cleasing Flame appears in second.

I don't play a rogue but was just browsing. Looked up the trinket curious about this, there's this hotfix note:

November 18, 2015 Infallible Tracking Charm now has a massively increased damage and chance to trigger, but now only increases damage against demons for 5 seconds (down from 10 seconds.) Source: http://www.wowhead.com/news=250004/n...-reaver-noises

Since this is a hotfix, they usually can't update the tooltip from it till a major patch goes through which we haven't had yet. That could explain the significantly increased damage and proc chance.

[ticktock19]

According to shadowcraft...

I was browsing the Shadowcraft thread but didn't see any update, so maybe its changed but from what I remember Shadowcraft is NOT a DPS simulator, and has been wonky with trinkets this whole expansion. SimCraft would be the way to test them out, and unless something significant has changed Soul Cap and Class trinket are above the heirloom. I didn't test other trinkets because they are not as optimal with Sub.

[Artorius]

http://i.imgur.com/y3cz5UT.png

Use this setting!

When I have it as no the trinket is still rated the highest trinket. Even above all Mythic WF trinkets.

You shouldn't be comparing trinkets at Shadowcraft. You can mostly safely compare non-proc based enchants and gems (and previously reforges) at it, for trinkets or proc based enchants you're better using SimC.

Honestly you should use SimC for everything.

[Kidlee]

What about the heirloom trinket on gorefiend over soul cap?

[Snorlaxi]

I was browsing the Shadowcraft thread but didn't see any update, so maybe its changed but from what I remember Shadowcraft is NOT a DPS simulator, and has been wonky with trinkets this whole expansion. SimCraft would be the way to test them out, and unless something significant has changed Soul Cap and Class trinket are above the heirloom. I didn't test other trinkets because they are not as optimal with Sub.

What Soul Capacitor? There are like 3 versions of it even if you exclude warforgeds. A normal non warforged Soul Capacitor upgraded twice is still 10 ilvl bellow the heirloom. Are you saying even that is better? Regardless of enemy type?

I have raid in like 10 minutes so I'll SimCraft later. I mean, I always thought that Shadowcraft while not a precise number simulator, was at least good to tell us X is better than Y.

[PessimiStick]

Shadowcraft is not a monte carlo simulation. Normally, this is ok. However, because of the way Sub works, it *really* undervalues Soul Cap. A proc on your opener is *insanely* more valuable than a proc at other times, and that won't be accurately represented by a pure averages engine like Shadowcraft. Some of my "mid-fight" soul cap procs are for ~250k damage. My opener soul cap can break 6.5M. You really need an actual simulator to evaluate it effectively.

[Evolixe]

What about the heirloom trinket on gorefiend over soul cap?

For progress sure, for farm? nah. Once you get the hang of the fight well enough it should be quite simple to avoid killing ghosts with it.

[Smassy]

I used the BoA trinket on Mythic Tyrant. Here's the log. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...one&source=256

I prefer soul cap over the BoA trinket.

[Generical]

Where does Mirror of the Blademaster + Class Trinket stand vs Soul Capacitor + Class trinket for Mythic Archimonde?

Comparing Mythic Archimonde vs Heroic Archimonde it's my understanding that you'll get more consistent full uses out of your Mirror since he's not being ping ponged everywhere for Allure, and with all of the adds that spawn in P2 on Mythic it seems like the better choice. My guild hasn't made it to P3 yet, but I assume at that point Soul Cap would be ahead of the Mirror, or possibly even due to Infernal cleave.

What this basically stems from is a comment someone made during our raid that they "don't see why a Rogue would ever use Mirror over Soul Capacitor" and it was a bad trinket. We were having trouble with DPS on Doomfire spawns staying up too long, and reaching 13+ stacks, so it was suggested that I use Soul Capacitor. My understanding is that Mirror is better than Soul Capacitor on 2+ target fights assuming you can get the full duration out of it (Which I know isn't often. Most fights I use Soul Cap / Class Trinket, but this is more of a question directed at the specific fights where mechanics lend themselves to getting full use of the Mirror).

I see downsides to the Soul Capacitor for Sub on that fight because you can't really predict when you'll get procs, and if we're talking about Doomfire specifically, a proc while the Doomfire is up would lead to a forced cancel which then splits that damage between Archimonde and the Doomfire and wastes most of it anyway.

Every time I've simmed my trinkets against each other, Soul Capacitor has won until I add another target (Like a Velhari scenario) and then Mirror pulls ahead.

I guess I'm just trying to double check my knowledge of it's usefulness.

[Snorlaxi]

Shadowcraft is not a monte carlo simulation. Normally, this is ok. However, because of the way Sub works, it *really* undervalues Soul Cap. A proc on your opener is *insanely* more valuable than a proc at other times, and that won't be accurately represented by a pure averages engine like Shadowcraft. Some of my "mid-fight" soul cap procs are for ~250k damage. My opener soul cap can break 6.5M. You really need an actual simulator to evaluate it effectively.

Ran simcraft on it. Against N Soul Capacitor, if the target is a demon the heirloom is better, though not by much. If the target is not a demon then N Soul Capacitor is better. As long as you got H Soul Capacitor or better I'm guessing you have absolutely 0 reason to ever use the heirloom.

[PessimiStick]

Combat class trinket is a single-target damage buff only.

Best CM trinkets are Mirror and whatever. Mirror is head and shoulders above everything else.

[Aethys256]

You're wrong, it boost Evisc wich boost Blade Flurry damage also .........

But yes, for area where it is nerfed, aka CM & TW, it's not the best.

[Evolixe]

Where does Mirror of the Blademaster + Class Trinket stand vs Soul Capacitor + Class trinket for Mythic Archimonde?

Mirror is not even remotely close. Once you get the hang of the first 2 phases your guild will blaze through them in literally no time at all. And especially if you have boomkins, the adds will just vaporize by themselves. You shouldn't be playing Combat for Archimonde btw.. in case that's what you're doing/thinking.