Hunter Legion survivability and kiting in PvP concerns?

[Deleted]

Hey fellow Hunters,

I have been following the Legion Alpha quite a bit and I have some concerns about the Hunter's survivability and ability to kite in this new expansion from a PvP perspective.

These concerns are of course from a ranged Hunter perspective, Marksmanship and Beast Master specializations.

Below are some abilities which ranged hunters have lost in Legion as it is now in Alpha:


# Master's Call (BM) - Your pet removes all root and movement impairing effects from itself and its target, and grants immunity to all such effects for 4 sec.

# Explosive Trap (Glyphed) - Your Explosive Trap no longer deals damage, instead knocking enemies back from the trap when it explodes.

#Freezing Trap (All specs) - Place a frost trap that freezes the first enemy that approaches, incapacitating them for up to 1 min.

#Spirit Bond - Regenerating 2% of total health every 2 seconds.

#Deterrence (All specs) - You deflect all attacks and take 30% less damage for 5 sec, but you cannot attack. 2 charges and 3 min CD.


So what abilities do we left and are there additional abilities implemented for Legion?


#Disengage (BM and MM) - Can be talented into Posthaste as per usual.

#Selection between Binding Shot (BM and MM) And Wyvern Sting - Works as per usual.

# New*Aspect of the Turtle (BM and MM) - You deflect all attacks and take 30% less damage for 8 sec, but you cannot attack. 1 charge and 3 min CD.

#New* Aspect of the Cheetah (BM and MM) - Increases your movement speed by 90% for 3 sec, and then for 30% for another 9 sec. 1 min CD.

# New* Survival tactics (PvP talent for both BM and MM) - Feign Death removes all harmful effects and reduces damage taken by 100% for 1.5 seconds.

#New* Bursting Shot (MM) - Fire an explosion of bolts that strikes all enemies in front of you, knocking them back and disorienting them, and dealing 40% Physical damage.

#Exhilaration (Both Mm and BM) - Instantly heal yourself for 50% of max health is now baseline.


Another concern I have is that other classes that are getting a big boost to mobility i.e. Fury warriors more specifically.

For examle Fury Warriors can now talent in the following:

#Bounding Stride - Heroic Leap's CD is reduced by 15 sec and increases movement speed by 70% for seconds.

#Barbarian (PvP talent) - Increases the number of charges of Heroic Leap by 2.

#Double Time (talent) - Works as it does in WoD. Increases the maximum number of charges of charge by 1.


If a Fury warrior spends the talents in the above talents they will have 3 charges of Heroic Leap on a 30 second CD, when used also boosts their run speed by 70% for 3 seconds. Add to this, 2 charges of Charge on 20 second CD.

Add a spammable Piercing Howl (AOE slow) and you get the picture.

So with Hunters losing a lot of survivability - and kiting abilities and mobility greatly increased for certain classes, Warriors, Subtlety Rogues, Demon Hunters and WW Monks I feel that Hunters will be stomped in PvP.


I recall how easy it was to Zerg down hunters before the double charges of Deterrence and how all of the traps and Master's Call was added to have a chance to kite melee.

Do we have a right to be concerned?


Cheers

[Arcanimus]

It's not even beta yet. Give it at least a month after beta starts for a proper pass on this.

[Eapoe]

Also, remember that melee are getting some mobility increases to catch ranged/heals. In turn, we have to lose some to counter balance this. Some melee have it better than others (for a good laugh go look at the ret pally mobility forum, they are whining so much because they can't see the things they do get). Another post also mentioned ranged hunters are losing their traps, so you might not even have a glyphed explosive or frost trap at all. Again, like I tried posting in the pally forum, it's all still in alpha and pvp has yet to even be explored, so will have to wait for beta for number crunches/tweaks to abilities before really worrying about how we will fare in the environment.

[Deleted]

I have the same concerns.

The argument that it's still beta is not convincing to me, because in WoD beta some testers pointed out that MM lonewolf doesn't work with half of the talents and people answered "it's still beta, ofc it will get fixed, etc..." but it didn't. Same with SV - testers said it was extremely boring and monotonous, yet it was left exactly like it was in the early alpha. They added a bear trap CD in one beta build, then deleted it in the next.

From now on they might shuffle talents around but it's not very likely to make conceptual changes like giving hunters a CC that can consistently be used on healers on a short CD.

In the current state of alfa, BM is the spec with the least amount of CC in the game. They only have binding shot (talented) and slows. Not a single CD that can be used to CC healers. MM is next in line with binding shot + bursting shot.
For comparison, enhance shaman (that is currently the spec with the least CC on live) can have 5sec stun + 5 sec AOE stun (from totem) + hex.

I'm still hoping for changes, wait and see I guess.

[Deleted]

I'm not really concerned about the amount of CC we'll have considering they wanted to further group up DR categories and aim to distribute different duties around the classes. We can always play with a high CC class and a healer to alleviate the lack of CC, kiting will still be strong bc we're the only ones able to attack while moving, BM even reduces dmg taken by allies by 15% almost permanently as long as they stay with our pets (which a healer will when pets gnaw on the melee that's chasing them). MM's bursting shot has a 30s CD and is even more realiable than a trap.

as long as our damage makes us a good fit for the "assassin" role (speaking in hots terms) we'll stay viable.

[Deleted]

I'm not really concerned about the amount of CC we'll have considering they wanted to further group up DR categories and aim to distribute different duties around the classes. We can always play with a high CC class and a healer to alleviate the lack of CC, kiting will still be strong bc we're the only ones able to attack while moving, BM even reduces dmg taken by allies by 15% almost permanently as long as they stay with our pets (which a healer will when pets gnaw on the melee that's chasing them). MM's bursting shot has a 30s CD and is even more realiable than a trap.

as long as our damage makes us a good fit for the "assassin" role (speaking in hots terms) we'll stay viable.

I am personally fine with having less CC however; the survivability needs to be there in order to stay competitive in arena and RBGs (if Blizzard ever tidy up RBGs from bots and cheaters at some point).

However, I am more concerned with warriors 5 gap closers within a 30 second window and the addition of Demon Hunters and their hyper mobility, Subtlety Rogues, Wind Walker Monks etc. Melee are obtaining all these gap closers which means that they'll wreck face.

[Rabbit]

I am concerned some atm. But its really early and lots can and will change. But I do think its good to voice concerns early versus later.

I am completely fine with losing CC, but our mobility is exactly where my concerns are for, at least in PvP regards. With only Posthaste talent to break snares/roots, one less deterrence charge, no Roar of Sac or Master's Call, traps gone, and only a short sprint and a knockback (I forget..is it casted or instant) added in; kiting melee will be a struggle.

Also, really, really, REALLY, not happy with Camo being a talent and 2 min cooldown/last 1 min. I Hope MM does good PvP damage, cause with no pet and no camo, we wont be guarding bases, our niche in rbgs.

[Tharkkun]

I have the same concerns.

The argument that it's still beta is not convincing to me, because in WoD beta some testers pointed out that MM lonewolf doesn't work with half of the talents and people answered "it's still beta, ofc it will get fixed, etc..." but it didn't. Same with SV - testers said it was extremely boring and monotonous, yet it was left exactly like it was in the early alpha. They added a bear trap CD in one beta build, then deleted it in the next.

From now on they might shuffle talents around but it's not very likely to make conceptual changes like giving hunters a CC that can consistently be used on healers on a short CD.

In the current state of alfa, BM is the spec with the least amount of CC in the game. They only have binding shot (talented) and slows. Not a single CD that can be used to CC healers. MM is next in line with binding shot + bursting shot.
For comparison, enhance shaman (that is currently the spec with the least CC on live) can have 5sec stun + 5 sec AOE stun (from totem) + hex.

I'm still hoping for changes, wait and see I guess.

But it's not even beta yet. It's an alpha. Shamans aren't even a playable. Only 1 healing spec (monk) is working and only Survival spec is available as a hunter. Wait until we can actually spec into BM or MM before raising all these concerns.

[Outsider24]

I appreciate the thread though. It was a good to look at the differences that you have outlined for hunter changes.

I see both sides of the fence. I've done pvp as warrior and Hunter.

Those changes are nice for warrior as I feel they need more of a gap closer, especially against hunter. Being able to swing your weapon and hit a hunter for them to deterrence and get away again is GG.

Hunters having less cc will need some more assistance but can now solely focus on burst (more tunnel vision yay!) The aspect of the turtle for me seems like it works pretty similar to deterrence. It really is just a higher cd/ 1 charge. The good news is we still have disengage which helps a lot. Although I will miss traps, it is what it is.

My question is will Hunters still have the talent that spider webs them in place?