Muslim workers in Fort Morgan fired over prayer dispute walkout

[GennGreymane]

company is now going to waste some time and money replacing them, when an easier solution is just setting up the lunch breaks a bit differently.

[minteK917]

It said they were using time from their 15-minute breaks and 30-minute lunch periods, not asking for additional time off that other workers wouldn't get.

This is where "undue hardship" comes in. Are they having to shut the line down while the Muslim workers are on break, or can they adjust break schedules to account for their desired scheduling? Then there isn't an issue. And such accomodations are to be expected.


Again, the article clearly stated that everyone was getting the same break times, and that the Muslim workers weren't getting any extra time off. The issue was solely that they wanted their breaks to coincide with prayer times, which are at specific points during the day. Using Denver as a guideline (since this was in CO), those times would be as listed here; http://www.islamicfinder.org/prayerD...ntry=usa&lang=

It isn't about additional break time. It's just about break scheduling.

True, but in many company you get split groups of pauses in order to keep productivity. Sounds like too many of them wanted to just take those break at the same time. Realistically its the companies right to fire people that hurt productivity, since its not a public job. I seen plently of people getting fired for similar things while not being muslims. If they can find more productive employee they will.

[Dextroden]

Yeah, no. I don't care what your religion is. You can't have a huge chunk of your workforce break all at once. That's why you usually stagger.

[minteK917]

company is now going to waste some time and money replacing them, when an easier solution is just setting up the lunch breaks a bit differently.

You are greatly overestimating how long and costly it is to replace cheap labor like this. Infact its probably why they are fired to begin with. A month full of production line problems is probably much more wasted cash then a 2 day formations for everyone fired.

[Independent voter]

If management were any good they would've worked with their employees and came up with a compromise and avoided firing all those people.

It could be some kind of union dispute that's not mentioned in the post, that's my guess.

[GennGreymane]

You are greatly overestimating how long and costly it is to replace cheap labor like this. Infact its probably why they are fired to begin with. A month full of production line problems is probably much more wasted cash then a 2 day formation.

fair enough. I would need a bit more info. But overall as a general idea, it just seems easier to adjust the breaks a bit, limit how many, etc, rather than get a whole new batch of people.

[Gmollster11]

I'm a devout Christian.

No employer should be mandated to allow any special time for any prayer related activity, for any religion.

If the employer wants to close for Christmas or not - that's on them. If they allow smoke breaks, but not prayer breaks - it's their business.

When you are the owner of a company, you should make the rules, as long as they are fair.

Governments need to stay out of it.

If Cargill allowed Muslim breaks, then they should allow for Christian, Mormon, Hindu, or even "the church of earth" who simply worship everything. Point being, better off not allowing any breaks specific to prayer.

As far as the mass firing - you walked out. Your loss.

[Adam Jensen]

Except you're wrong... I work 8 hours straight 4-6 days a week and am allowed 1 20 minute break *IF* time allows it.

I would also like to add, I've gone weeks without a single break.

Then get a lawyer, because that shit is illegal.

[Kraenen]

fair enough. I would need a bit more info. But overall as a general idea, it just seems easier to adjust the breaks a bit, limit how many, etc, rather than get a whole new batch of people.

But as someone mentioned, doesn't it have to be at the same time according to their religion? That just can't happen from a production standpoint.

[GennGreymane]

But as someone mentioned, doesn't it have to be at the same time according to their religion? That just can't happen from a production standpoint.

Well if they cant be reasoned with at all, firing is the answer. We dont know if there could have been a reasonable solution though.

[minteK917]

It could be some kind of union dispute that's not mentioned in the post, that's my guess.

Unlikely, production bonuses are a real thing even for unions. If the company could realistically show the drop in production done by the inflexible muslims prayers, you can bet your ass the union will let them get fired. People have these unrealistic ideas that Unions make you immune to stuff, Unions in small/medium enterprises are usually only employee representing themselves and usually the older ones as well.

[Deleted]

Basically is they wanted to take their break all at once while the owner said do it on shedule not all at once?

[Adam Jensen]

But as someone mentioned, doesn't it have to be at the same time according to their religion? That just can't happen from a production standpoint.

[TITAN308]

I will have to agree here. There is def a more reasonable compromise to be made.

I may be incorrect here, but generally they pray 5 times a day.

Smokers who use their scheduled breaks don't typically get 5 breaks in a shift to do so. If its anything like my previous work places, a typical 8 hour shift grants two ten or two fifteen minute paid breaks and one unpaid lunch break.

The other thing no one is considering, when these guys go on break to pray are they halting other processes in the plant?

That is a BIG problem if one workers religious requirements also cause a stoppage with other employees.

In an environment like a plant that could seriously screw things up.

Even the ADA laws don't permit disabled people special rules if the company can show it severely impacts the business. Like a roofing company not hiring someone bound to a wheelchair.

[Dextroden]

Well if they cant be reasoned with at all, firing is the answer. We dont know if there could have been a reasonable solution though.

Probably not.

[Ealyssa]

But recently a decision was made at the plant to change the practice.

Why change the practice sudently ? If it really harmed the prudctivity why was it in place before ? And Why change it now, in 2015, when the crisis hit more than 5 years ago (you know, the period were you could actually justify every need of even small increase of productivity to stay competitive).

The situation isn't clear and really smell like islamophobia. But without any independent investigation about the reason, we can only make assumption.

That a facotry can't comply to prayer time is totally understandable. But that they change break time schedule after at least 4 years of allowing it sounds strange. Maybe some change at the direction who don't like muslim ?

I may be incorrect here, but generally they pray 5 times a day.

Smokers who use their scheduled breaks don't typically get 5 breaks in a shift to do so. If its anything like my previous work places, a typical 8 hour shift grants two ten or two fifteen minute paid breaks and one unpaid lunch break.

To be accurate it's 5 times per day, not 5 in a work shift. One at sunrise, one arround noon, one in the afternoon, one at sunset and one in the evening/night.

So in most shifts it's 1 or 2 prayer in addition of lunch break. Just like any smokers would do (and most do more if it's like where I work).

[GennGreymane]

I may be incorrect here, but generally they pray 5 times a day.

Smokers who use their scheduled breaks don't typically get 5 breaks in a shift to do so. If its anything like my previous work places, a typical 8 hour shift grants two ten or two fifteen minute paid breaks and one unpaid lunch break.

The other thing no one is considering, when these guys go on break to pray are they halting other processes in the plant?

That is a BIG problem if one workers religious requirements also cause a stoppage with other employees.

5 times a day, not all necessarily during work hours. Like I said, we dont know if their could have been a reasonable way to resolve this. However if they could not reach a reasonable way to resolve the issue, then firing is appropriate.

[WintersLegion]

Then get a lawyer, because that shit is illegal.

Yeah and the company can get in trouble if you don't decide to use your breaks or lunch.

[Kraenen]

Well if they cant be reasoned with at all, firing is the answer. We dont know if there could have been a reasonable solution though.

A reasonable solution doesn't usually mesh with religious faith (not to be edgy or anything). Those things are kind of set in stone - and the workers proved prayer is more important than the family who depends on their employment.

[Endus]

That is not acceptable at all. You can't just have a huge chunk of the workforce go "lol time to pray" all at once.

I got the impression from the article that this wasn't a "huge chunk". It's 150 employees out of 2000. While that's significant, all those employees are going to be getting their 15-minute break sometime. With that percentage, if you had 13 different break schedules to keep things flowing, you could put all the devout Muslims on the schedule that fits their needs without negatively impacting anyone else, or the labor requirements of the work.