If anyone needs ability pruning... its Shaman

[Deleted]

I like what I see.

[mindw0rk]

How anyone could love Ench shaman in vanilla? Most boring spec back then by far. All you could do is autoattack and prey for windfury 24/7. Ench in Legions is so much better

[Trample]

From what I saw I'm afraid to abandon my shaman after 10 years of maining it... Spamming Rockbiter and wait for procs.... What an awful spec we will have compared to what we have nowadays... I'm really sad...

Seriously when I look to rogue, drood, priest, they all look way better and more fun than today. But for my favorite spec : even more spamming than today with a lot of ridiculous small abilities (flametongue for example) and only one hard hitting stormstrike with a "big" CD on it...

I'm really disappointed now and hope that will not go live, or I will be forced to switch my main (which I have only done once mid BC, going from feral to enh...).

[Manabomb]

I completely disagree with just about everything you're saying... but it doesnt matter anyway since this topic is 2 months too late. In Legion Enhancement is probably getting the most significant overhaul of anyone. Most of the kit is being thrown away and replaced with abilities and talents that are specific to Enhancement.

All I can say to that is: Thank fuck. Playing enhancement on live is pretty much a cluster fuck compared to literally any other more refined class. Infact, going from my fury warrior to my enhancement shaman is like going from an English keyboard to a Chinese keyboard set.

[TeeZed]

Nobody was in need of an ability prune, just refinement, WoD was a curse and part of that was the ability prune. People went from 2 bars of abilities that they'd use, to barely being able to fill 1.

Enhancement looks like you can actually play it with some thought, watching MS, Procs, keeping buffs up, speccing windsong and landslide will need upkeep if YOU CHOOSE to. And that's the why I like the new talents for shaman, if you want to manage just one buff take the talents which fit your playstyle, windsong is more of short cooldown MS builder / Proc generator that you can fit in between cooldowns, it might / probably will come out that windsong should be up during doom winds. Only thing I want is a big MS drump, maybe make lavalash like execute using more resource when available, who knows.

On topic. No thank you, stop taking things away, the game is simple enough as it is, at least the classes are getting some sort of distinct playstyle without sharing abilities now, last thing this game needs is yet enother prune.

[Deleted]

From what I saw I'm afraid to abandon my shaman after 10 years of maining it... Spamming Rockbiter and wait for procs.... What an awful spec we will have compared to what we have nowadays... I'm really sad...

Seriously when I look to rogue, drood, priest, they all look way better and more fun than today. But for my favorite spec : even more spamming than today with a lot of ridiculous small abilities (flametongue for example) and only one hard hitting stormstrike with a "big" CD on it...

I'm really disappointed now and hope that will not go live, or I will be forced to switch my main (which I have only done once mid BC, going from feral to enh...).

to be fair in Wod and before, it was apply flame shock use SS/LL auto attack till cows come home, use ES LB. this new version seems a lot more reactive and fun im my eyes, this is from a shaman since vanilla. at least we actually have some combat abilities now, not just some shit shocks and a crappy totem to drop.

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Nobody was in need of an ability prune, just refinement, WoD was a curse and part of that was the ability prune. People went from 2 bars of abilities that they'd use, to barely being able to fill 1.

Enhancement looks like you can actually play it with some thought, watching MS, Procs, keeping buffs up, speccing windsong and landslide will need upkeep if YOU CHOOSE to. And that's the why I like the new talents for shaman, if you want to manage just one buff take the talents which fit your playstyle, windsong is more of short cooldown MS builder / Proc generator that you can fit in between cooldowns, it might / probably will come out that windsong should be up during doom winds. Only thing I want is a big MS drump, maybe make lavalash like execute using more resource when available, who knows.

On topic. No thank you, stop taking things away, the game is simple enough as it is, at least the classes are getting some sort of distinct playstyle without sharing abilities now, last thing this game needs is yet enother prune.

from what I can gather Storm Strike is going to melt face. lots of +damage etc. to that ability in Artefact tree. that will be the big daddy for shaman

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How anyone could love Ench shaman in vanilla? Most boring spec back then by far. All you could do is autoattack and prey for windfury 24/7. Ench in Legions is so much better

yeah but dat 1 shot WF though

[Venziir]

How anyone could love Ench shaman in vanilla? Most boring spec back then by far. All you could do is autoattack and prey for windfury 24/7. Ench in Legions is so much better

Yeach Ench was terrible, no one liked that. Quite a few liked Enh though... Seriously it's a spec that's been in the game for about 12 years, how are people still not getting it right >.<

[wordup]

All I can say to that is: Thank fuck. Playing enhancement on live is pretty much a cluster fuck compared to literally any other more refined class. Infact, going from my fury warrior to my enhancement shaman is like going from an English keyboard to a Chinese keyboard set.

Are you unironically comparing Enhancement to one of the most frustratingly RNG-laden & unpleasant specs in WoW's history?

[High-Chief Greathoof]

If they remove just two of the buffs required for single-target upkeep - bringing the total to about 5 - then it is perfect. Nothing else I would change.

[wordup]

If they remove just two of the buffs required for single-target upkeep - bringing the total to about 5 - then it is perfect. Nothing else I would change.

I posted this in another thread, but atm there really isn't as many buff "upkeeps" as are being reported. Buff/debuff upkeep by definition need low/no cooldown spells that have a long duration, in which using them too often is detrimental. Currently Enhancement on Alpha has (if we include talents) two spells (not 7, as you imply) that fall into this category: Flametongue & Landslide.

I think there's a very, very dangerous concept going on in these forums and elsewhere, that spells that give buffs are automatically buff upkeep spells, which is simply not correct. You don't call Shadow Dance a buff upkeep spell, Doom Winds isn't a buff upkeep spell, neither is Pillar of Frost. A spell with a cooldown twice as long, or more, of the duration of the buff, are absolutely not buff upkeep spells, they're cooldowns. Sure, they're either unusually low cooldowns or more-frequent-than-the-norm, but they are frequent cooldown tools and mechanics.

[TeeZed]

I posted this in another thread, but atm there really isn't as many buff "upkeeps" as are being reported. Buff/debuff upkeep by definition need low/no cooldown spells that have a long duration, in which using them too often is detrimental. Currently Enhancement on Alpha has (if we include talents) two spells (not 7, as you imply) that fall into this category: Flametongue & Landslide.

I think there's a very, very dangerous concept going on in these forums and elsewhere, that spells that give buffs are automatically buff upkeep spells, which is simply not correct. You don't call Shadow Dance a buff upkeep spell, Doom Winds isn't a buff upkeep spell, neither is Pillar of Frost. A spell with a cooldown twice as long, or more, of the duration of the buff, are absolutely not buff upkeep spells, they're cooldowns. Sure, they're either unusually low cooldowns or more-frequent-than-the-norm, but they are frequent cooldown tools and mechanics.

This is what was confusing me, I could only see flametongue as a buff that you needed to monitor, as if that was hard. I don't get where people are getting that over-complex playstyle, it's basic as shit. Rockbiter, use procs, keep flametongue up, don't let MS go above 80 where possible, dump with lavalash. Procs aren't cooldowns, killing machine isn't a buff you have to manage, it's something you can't control, reactive, same as sudden death. Sure it's harder than arms is now, but so is trying to keep in a fart at an interview.

[Madelein]

Yeach Ench was terrible, no one liked that. Quite a few liked Enh though... Seriously it's a spec that's been in the game for about 12 years, how are people still not getting it right >.<

Vanilla Enhancement was awesome. Those big two handers and seeing people run from you in WSG because they knew that just one proc was enough to destroy them. Hand of Rag.. Enhancement.. Windfury totem.. Pure and absolute joy.

Truth be told, I actually liked it in Wrath, where it involved much more button pushing and we were forced to interact with the game and make better choices instead of playing whack-a-mole. There was always, and I mean always, a button to push. That was fun.

I actually find it a bit too boring now.

As for why people are still not getting it right. Laziness.

[Deleted]

All I can say to that is: Thank fuck. Playing enhancement on live is pretty much a cluster fuck compared to literally any other more refined class. Infact, going from my fury warrior to my enhancement shaman is like going from an English keyboard to a Chinese keyboard set.

Then you're simply not a shaman. Certainly not an enhancement shaman anyway. I get pissed when people complain about the number of buttons we have and whinging about totem management etc. That is what playing a shaman is all about. There are dozens of other specs out there that don't require this management, that's why having shaman and enhancement in particular is so wonderful, it gives choice.

I personally think that with the removal of so many totems, Blizzard have already failed in their attempt to reinforce the shaman class/spec fantasy.

[Rilas13]

Hello, so I haven't played Shaman much. In the past month I have played it almost exclusively, I have been considering it for Legion.
So I agree with some of the OP, it took me a bit to get used to everything on my bars. My Shaman has a fuller bar then every other class I have played at max lavel. Which accounts for I think 8 of them off the top of my head.

Anyway after I got used to it it isn't so bad, but a lot of what makes up shaman feels unrefined which is the most frustrating part. I do think that each spec should control all the elements. If they had a some other elements for Niche Resto stuff I think it would be kind of cool. Like a Cauterize ability in there.
Back in Vanilla I was certain Enhancement would eventually become a tank spec and I'm kinda sad its not now.

I don't really dislike the way they play though, my issue with Shaman is that since all of our abilities can be used in the heat of battle, it is a little convoluted. I have 23-27 buttons bound(with macros I have a few multi-purpose buttons), which for most classes takes care of nearly everything. Shaman has a few overhanging things that I want to have at my fingertips but its just too much to use comfortably. Totems are probably the biggest offender here but I don't think they should loose totems. Back in classic I remember the totem quests and they do feel important to the fantasy.

I think it would be a lot of fun to redefine Shaman a bit, but I would want some water based attacks for Enhancement, I love their new air based blink. I have been thinking they deserved it for a long time. however; Legion is already fixing most of the OP's issues so I'm not really sure where the motivation for this is coming from. Long list of removed abilities, especially if your Enhancement.

TL;DR: Shamans are a bit more rough around the edges then other classes, but they are already being addressed, and what isn't kinda makes them special. I am sorry you don't like the way they are going.

[Valkaneer]

I posted this in another thread, but atm there really isn't as many buff "upkeeps" as are being reported. Buff/debuff upkeep by definition need low/no cooldown spells that have a long duration, in which using them too often is detrimental. Currently Enhancement on Alpha has (if we include talents) two spells (not 7, as you imply) that fall into this category: Flametongue & Landslide.

I think there's a very, very dangerous concept going on in these forums and elsewhere, that spells that give buffs are automatically buff upkeep spells, which is simply not correct. You don't call Shadow Dance a buff upkeep spell, Doom Winds isn't a buff upkeep spell, neither is Pillar of Frost. A spell with a cooldown twice as long, or more, of the duration of the buff, are absolutely not buff upkeep spells, they're cooldowns. Sure, they're either unusually low cooldowns or more-frequent-than-the-norm, but they are frequent cooldown tools and mechanics.

Hey Wordup, I think right here is what people are talking about Watch through 3:54 sec https://youtu.be/cBlDiGwk5Lg?t=3m24s Jay says "There is way to much micro buff management", "To AoE effectively there is a 4-6 button set up", "To single target burst effectively there is like 7 different buttons to hit, set up, and buff manage"

[wordup]

Hey Wordup, I think right here is what people are talking about Watch through 3:54 sec https://youtu.be/cBlDiGwk5Lg?t=3m24s Jay says "There is way to much micro buff management", "To AoE effectively there is a 4-6 button set up", "To single target burst effectively there is like 7 different buttons to hit, set up, and buff manage"

For AoE, I can understand that there is a bit of a setup there (though only one really requires you to wait for mobs to be active i.e. Crash Lightning, similar to Lava Lash spreading now). For single target, I really don't see it right now, there is only 1-2 buffs depending on your talents that you need to actively pay attention to. I can understand instead people being questionable about cooldown management, but they're definitely more simple than they appear when you first look at the kit.

[Pantalaimon]

Lol how are current shamans overbloated exactly? I mained Ele for the longest time (pretty much just LB, FS, ES, LvB & Ascendance) and went to Enh which has more abilities but even then I'm not overwhelmed with maining the new spec at all. Except for rogues & hunters the rotations are very simple to execute.

[Valkaneer]

Lol how are current shamans overbloated exactly? I mained Ele for the longest time (pretty much just LB, FS, ES, LvB & Ascendance) and went to Enh which has more abilities but even then I'm not overwhelmed with maining the new spec at all. Except for rogues & hunters the rotations are very simple to execute.

Anything that basically requires Weak Aura's like Wordup's enhancement weak aura's is over bloated.

[nazrakin]

Anything that basically requires Weak Aura's like Wordup's enhancement weak aura's is over bloated.

I think that's more todo with deficiencies of the default UI. All those weak auras is really doing is surfacing and rearranging UI info in a much more readable format.

[Valkaneer]

I think that's more todo with deficiencies of the default UI. All those weak auras is really doing is surfacing and rearranging UI info in a much more readable format.

Not really, Blizzard made the game have a lot more of these micro management situations due to addons like Power Auras. IMO the difference most of the time between really good raiders and average raider is that these top tier raiders have really good addons that are set up very well. Sadly you need to be a programmer just about to track some things in the game. Such as In vanilla I used a Logitech G9, and now I use a Razer Naga. I use the Naga because you really need one if you want to do well.

There were no Dot Trackers back then, LoL just ask anyone who killed Lucifron before addons how hard that was. Addons made life a lot easier, so Blizz made their game more complicated. Seems now they realized possibly that everyone needed addons is not the ideal way to make a game.